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Epic Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Keyword clarifications rss

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Federico Abella
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So, now that
Ernie Barrett
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has gratiously shared the Origins brochure (thanks ErnieB!) we've got a lot more to work with, especially when it comes to being extra clear about keywords (I find that's ALWAYS a problem with keywords).

I'll start us off with: Airborne, Breakthrough and Righteous.

Airborne: Can only be blocked by other airborne champions.
Now, the deal with Airborne is, a previous (different) image by ErnieB had a different text, which read: Only airborne defenders can block if all attacking champions have airborne.

This definitely warrants some clarification. Is airborne only useful when all attackers are airborne? In that case, it'd be clear to me the defending player cannot assign non-airborne champions to block. But what if the attacker uses both airborne and non-airborne champions? Can you assign damage as normal ignoring airborne (as the second text seems to imply)? Or can you only distribute damage from blockers to attackers considering that you can only assign damage to airborne attackers from airborne blockers?

Breakthrough: You may assign damage from attacking breakthrough champions to the defending player after all blockers have been assigned damage equal to their defense by breakthrough characters.

I'm especially curious about that last (bold) part. How exactly does breakthrough work? What happens if you have both breakthrough and non-breakthrough champions attacking. What if you break all defending champions using just your non-breakthrough attack?

Righteous: When a righteous Champion deals damage, you gain that much health.

Does this include damage dealt to both players AND blocking Champions? I'm assuming it does, as I'm assuming it also includes damage above and beyong blocking Champions' breaking point.
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Paul Newsham
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If you attack with a mix of airborne and normal champions, the opponent can block the non-airborne with non-airborne blockers. As per the rules leaflet, if any champion in the attacking group is blocked, the whole group is blocked. So by mixing champions in the attack group, you allow your opponent more flexibility when selecting blockers. However, if everything in an attack group is airborne, then your opponent can only legally select airborne blockers.

What I took from the breakthrough rule is that damage from that type of champion is assigned first when attacking with a mixed group. So, if all your opponents champions are killed with breakthrough damage alone, then the remainder goes straight through. However, you can't say "my non breakthrough dude takes your blocker to one health, then this breakthrough guy finishes it off and deals a whole bunch to your face".

Both of these rules seem to make the selection of attack groups, and the order in which to attack very interesting indeed.
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Christian K
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Note that usually you will not attack with a group but just a single champion (at least I think it was the case with the original). I am curious why they didn't change it to the simpler 'only one champion attacks at a time'.
 
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Muemmelmann wrote:
Note that usually you will not attack with a group but just a single champion (at least I think it was the case with the original). I am curious why they didn't change it to the simpler 'only one champion attacks at a time'.


I'm assuming the whole group thing is because they're not tracking champion life. You either have enough damage to break a champion outright, or you can't scratch it. So you might often want to group up a few smaller creatures to take down a bigger one. You might even want to group a flier up with ground creatures if the blocking ground creature is huge, and that's the only way you can break it.

Wouldn't have to do that if you tracked creature life, with wound gems or whatever, but I love the general lack of tracking you have to do in Star Realms, and this sounds like a great mechanic to keep Epic similarly streamlined.
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Christian K
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It is true, it does give some strategic possibilities like this. Note that it also allows the bigger champion to kill all your small ones though.

If you attack with your small ones one by one, only one of them can be blocked since the big champion gets flipped after it blocks.
 
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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To use MTG terms.

Breakthrough = Trample

Righteous = Lifelink.


Simple as that.
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Rafał Kruczek
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Wildhorn wrote:
To use MTG terms.

Breakthrough = Trample

Righteous = Lifelink.


Simple as that.

No it isn't so simple.
When you mix Breakthrough-damage with non-Breakthrough damage effects may be different in Epic form that would be in MtG.
Breakthrough damage must be higher that total defence of blockers to go through - and previous damage and combat damage from non-Breakthrough champions deosn't count for the threshhold.
But if we get official clarification that it have to work as trample that would mean taht rulebook for Epic TCG and current rules are really badly written.
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Federico Abella
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So what happens with non-breakthrough damage when breakthrough damage breaks through the blockers? (This is like a tongue-twister) I still think this warrants further explanation (and examples).
 
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Christian K
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I guess it goes away but you could use the non-breakthrough damage on thdefenders first, it would likely be the best.
 
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Rafał Kruczek
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fede689 wrote:
So what happens with non-breakthrough damage when breakthrough damage breaks through the blockers? (This is like a tongue-twister) I still think this warrants further explanation (and examples).

In Mtg when crature without trample is blocked it doesn't deal damage to defending player. Even in blocking crature is somehow removed before damage dealing.
In Epic I really don't know
Compare:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/2548409/ernieb?size=larg...

"Step 7. If there are no blockers champions deal thair damage to defending player"
to:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/2550889/epic?size=large

"Step 7. If attack was not blocked champions deal their damage to defending player"

If blocking Champion was removed somehow (broken by event, ability, sacrificed for cost of ability ):
- in the first version there are no blockers in step 7, so damage is dealt to defending player
- in the second version it counts that attackers were blocked in step 4 so no damage.

With breakthrough damage there is no difference - no blockers means 0 total defense, so all breakthrough damage goes to defending player.

So let's wait for final official rulebook.
But it would be nice to have such rulebook proofread BEFORE it is printed...



 
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Federico Abella
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Muemmelmann wrote:
I guess it goes away but you could use the non-breakthrough damage on thdefenders first, it would likely be the best.


Right, but the breakthrough ability means defenders must be assigned breakthrough damage (either first or completely, that's not clear yet).
 
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Paul Newsham
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The wording makes it sound like this (for breakthrough + non breakthrough in combo)

- assign breakthrough damage to blockers
- if breakthrough damage > defence, assign remainder to player, then assign all non-breakthrough damage to player (since the blockers are all dead now)
- if breakthrough damage <= defence, treat exactly the same as normal damage
 
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Here's a clarification from Rob:

Robert Dougherty (Kickstarter) wrote:
OK, for Breakthrough:
When dealing damage, take the total offense of champions with breakthrough in the attack, subtract the total defense of _all_ blocking champions, you may assign the remainder to the defending player.

For example, if your attack has an 18 offense champion with breakthrough and a 10 offense normal champion, and the blocking group has a 4 defense champion and a 10 defense champion who has already taken 5 damage this turn, you can deal 4 damage to the defending player.

18-(10+4) = 4

The non-breakthrough champion didn't help. The damage already on one of the blockers didn't help. Swords with breakthrough - all shield in block when damage is applied. That is it!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1172937197/epic-card-ga...
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Federico Abella
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Great! Thanks greylag!
 
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