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Subject: Consim world organization? rss

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Isley
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I just started checking out consimworld and I'm a little confused about how it is organized. Does each game just have one big "general discussion" thread for it? Maybe I'm just used to BGG's format, but it seems like it would be simpler to split the discussions up. The ASL forum for instance...is it really just one big 25,000 post thread? Maybe I'm just not getting it (or misunderstanding) but it seems like it would be hard to browse around for topics that interest you.
 
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Paul Bravey
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No, you're not missing anything, each game forum is just one continuous thread. If you're a regular visitor then you just subscribe to the game forums you're interested in and you can just mentally filter out the posts you're not interested in while not missing anything. The rather large counterpoint to this is that if you're not a regular then dredging the forum for useful content is a real pain in the neck, let alone managing to navigate to the correct forum in the first place.

I tend to use BGG and CSW as complementary sources - BGG for visuals, reviews and additional content, and CSW for rules questions and updates.

Paul
 
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Peter Vrabel
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Yes. You are correct. All the ASl discussion is one honking great big thread. (Actually, the ASLSK discussion is seperate) Yes, this does make it hard to browse though the archives.

However...BGG only seems simple to navigate because you're used to it, Consimworlders occasionally complain that BGG is hard to navigate, beause infomation about a game is scattered in many different places. If you want to stay up to date on all the ASL stuff, for example, you'd have to check the game forums, the company forums, general discussion forums, photo comments and many geeklists.

If you want to keep up with all the ASL stuff on consimworld, you just have to subscribe to one thread.

I'm omni-forum-iverous. I'm happy with either, though both styles have thier strengths and weaknesses.
 
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Iain K
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thrasymachus,

I hear you bud. Consimworld is just not set up for historical browsing. I want to read up on session reports, strategy, reviews . . . and all they have is one long thread for ewach game I'm interested in. Makes it really hard to find old content and research games that you're interested in buying.

IMHO, BGG's way of organization is light years ahead, and Consim is barely organizaed at all.
 
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Isley
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OK, just making sure I wasn't the only one. Too bad too, since there seems to be a lot of good info in there. I guess it's still nice to check up on news updates for games.
 
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Andrew C
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Yeah, that is why I primarily use BGG. BGG is good for figuring out what game you want to buy next (and just for entertainment value) while consim world is good for technical questions about a game- if you can find what you're looking for.

While each has it own uses, personally I think consimworld doesn't hold a candle to BGG. I'd like to see them take a page or two out of BGG's book and add pictures, topics etc.

EDIT: in fairness to consimworld, there is a lot of wargame stuff there you simply can't find here. For example, there are some great discussions going on about upcoming L2 Design releases that look OUTSTANDING. (Achtung Panzer for one, and another on a squad level game whose name escapes me right now).
 
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Isley
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Still, I don't understand why people always say stuff like "check the asl forums on consim if you have questions, every question ever has been answered there!" I'm sure they have but I would have no idea how to find any specific question. I guess I could do a search for "wall LOS WTF" or something, but I wonder how well even that would work...I haven't messed with the search feature much yet.
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Paul Bravey
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Ironically, I find the search facility of CSW a lot easier to use than BGG. Restricting a search to just a particular forum seems to be a lot easier - visit the forum, hit search, enter search term, select search this location and way you go. BGG doesn't seem to be able to do the equivalent though it does support random browsing better.
 
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Steve
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I have the exact same problem with consim, IMHO it's a brutal interface for someone who wants to get any back information. I'm interested in reading the strategy sessions about Paths of Glory as there are some great, great PoG players who are in the thread--a thread that consists of 15,000 posts. Yet all I get is one thread that's nightmarish to navigate. I can't even figure out how to go to a certain numbered post--it really irritates me to either start from the beginning or the end and go back through it 100 posts at a time. As a result I grope around in the dark in my current games even though I could really use some tips in the grand strategic sense especially that I *know* are in this big thread.
 
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Ted Kim
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LordStrabo wrote:
Consimworlders occasionally complain that BGG is hard to navigate, beause infomation about a game is scattered in many different places. If you want to stay up to date on all the ASL stuff, for example, you'd have to check the game forums, the company forums, general discussion forums, photo comments and many geeklists.


I have suggested adding an interface to BGG to help out those used to the ConsimWorld way of doing thing:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/1201605

That way you could read BGG with either style interface. Maybe it would increase the wargame traffic at BGG. Though the comments from other users doesn't look like it's getting any traction.

 
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Paul M
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citizen k wrote:
IMHO, BGG's way of organization is light years ahead, and Consim is barely organizaed at all.


BGG does have nice organization, but it could stand to organize its pictures somehow. Categories would be good, like

Box And Components
Component Close-ups
Game Customizing (Includes painted figs)
Artistic w/game pieces
Photoshop Humor
Domesticated Animals
Drunk Idiots playing the game
Hotties who like the game
Hotties who pretend to like the game

Finding useful pictures of a game with 100+ images is a PAIN. If I work up the courage I'll start a thread where I suggest such an idea. Starting a thread is like asking someone to give you a papercut, then subsequently give you either more papercuts or soothing ointment relief at random.

Back to the subject, the few times I've gone to CSW for info on a game, it's been an annoying hassle.
 
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Lance Wilkinson

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Cleitus the Black wrote:
For example, there are some great discussions going on about upcoming L2 Design releases that look OUTSTANDING...and another on a squad level game whose name escapes me right now).


"Conflict of Heroes"?
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@92.Ky9vcV3oxl4.14@.1dd0e...

Sounds like the 'tacsim less complex than ASL/ASL SK/ATS market' is becoming crowded, with lock n' load around, then combat commander, this game, and tide of iron in the works.

L2 seems to have so many games in the works...will any of them be coming out soon?
 
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Isaac Citrom
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I have used both BGG and ConsimWorld. Although, CSW's format is as you have discovered, one giant thread, CSW's serach facilities are very strong and rich. I have never had trouble finding information there. On the other hand, I find the opposite is true at BGG. I find BGG's really weak search functions a real drawback.

As others have stated, I use BGG for the excellent information about a game. CSW is where I go if I want to actually discuss the game and rules.

Also note that BGG is boardgame Nirvana whereas CSW is much more about the "boxed" or "bookcase" games, in particular the "monster" wargames. In fact, MonsterCon is a CSW organized event.
 
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Jay Richardson
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Isley Unruh wrote:
Still, I don't understand why people always say stuff like "check the asl forums on consim if you have questions, every question ever has been answered there!"

Politics... mostly.

Some ASL players, who prefer ConsimWorld, and who maybe feel that BGG is not a "real" wargame site, will tell beginners things like this... simply to try to boost the site they prefer (and maybe to prevent you from finding out how good BGG really is?). They're just "recruiting" for the site they like.

Which site is actually better depends a lot upon the particular game you are interested in. The ASL community on BGG is active and growing, but few of the top players, rules experts, scenario designers, etc. can be found here. And if you want to post something that MMP is sure to see (and possibly respond to) you have to do it on ConsimWorld... that is their official support site. On the other hand, I think that BGG is rapidly becoming THE best place on the web for ASLSK players: the growing collection of rules discussions, strategy articles, and session reports – well-organized for easy access and with the recommendation system to indicate the most popular and/or useful entries – is unmatched by any other site that I know of.

Ted Kim wrote:
I have suggested adding an interface to BGG to help out those used to the ConsimWorld way of doing thing...

There are already tools available on BGG that let you do this in a limited way. You can go to a publisher's page (instead of a game page) and click "Active" in the forums list there to see EVERY recent new thread or update to ALL of that publisher's games collected into one list. For example, by going to MMP's page:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/publisher/196

...I never miss any activity on the ASLSK and ASL pages.

General Forum threads and Geeklists require a little more work: when I see a general forum thread or geeklist that has a worthwhile or extended discussion concerning ASL/ASLSK, I tag it with the "asl" tag:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/richfam/tag/asl

It's not perfect... there are no sorting options, for instance. But the point is that BGG has the structure and the tools to support organizing and accessing data in ways that other sites do not.

That's why, even though I am a supporting member at ConsimWorld, when I feel I have something of value to post, I usually do it here on BGG... where players in the future might actually have a chance of finding it!
 
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Isaac Citrom
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Yes, I agree with Jay.

ConsimWorld is the place to go right now to discuss wargames, for sure. But, BGG is my gaming home. I spend most of my time here as opposed to CSW. The way BGG organizes information is far better. Now, if BGG had even a half decent serach facility, things would be perfect.

All the wargaming latest and greatest, for now, resides on CSW. But, take for example, Rick Young, one of the designers of Europe Engulfed. He has a strong presence both here and there.
 
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Steve
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richfam wrote:

That's why, even though I am a supporting member at ConsimWorld, when I feel I have something of value to post, I usually do it here on BGG... where players in the future might actually have a chance of finding it!


Exactly--and we beginning wargamers appreciate it. I wish there was such a rich wealth of information and strategy discussions on BGG; the organization and incredibly variable signal/noise ration on CSW make it impossible to learn what you need to know.
 
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Iain K
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ipgyst wrote:
BGG does have nice organization, but it could stand to organize its pictures somehow.


Agreed.
 
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Herb Petro
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thrasymachus wrote:
Still, I don't understand why people always say stuff like "check the asl forums on consim if you have questions, every question ever has been answered there!"


If you really want to know about the game then you just start at the beginning of the thread and read everything to the present. Alternately you can use the search function (it does work pretty well).
 
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Azog
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Consimworld does have somewhat of an outdated interface, but once you get into the Consimworld-way of doing things, it's actually much better for the low volume discussions that most wargames generate.
 
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Seth Owen
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I hang out more on BGG than Consimworld for a couple of reasons.
First, I'm interested in nonwargames as well, and Comsimworld is obviously a wargame-oriented site. Second, even my wargame interests are eclectic, and I think Consimworld is optimized for people who have specialized interests like ASL, GCACW or the like. Third, I find BGG easier to use on a casual, pop-in-and-out basis. I simply don't have the time to take advantage of Consimworld's depth of material.
Both sites are a great service.
 
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Rich Shipley
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Wargames seem to keep at least a low level discussion going on CSW if people are paying them at all. If you are subscribed to a topic, even if it has been dormant for a while it will pop up for you when someone posts something.

The BGG forum interface can be OK for games that have an active discussion going. The threads are sorted and you can pop into the topics that look interesting.

BGG just seems terrible for keeping up with less active games. After several attempts over my 5 months of trying to actively use the site, I can't find any way to just see the posts I haven't read in game forums I'm interested in.

BGG is great for finding organized info for games (though for wargames, I might check Web Grognards first), but just not that great for continuing discussions of games and topics that fall off the hot list.
 
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Chester
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If you want to follow a specific game and all the information in one thread (like CSW) just subsribe to the RSS feed. Its all-encompassing, so very similar to the monster-thread model (which I personally find cumbersome to the point of being almost useless.

I've gone back and reread the whole thread on a couple games (B2B and PoG), which was a huge investment. Sometimes, I wanted to review a post I knew I'd read....but it was hopeless trying to find it again. If there is powerful search capability on CSW, its certainly not intuitive. I've tried multiple times to search for key terms and couldn't get anywhere. Also, I haven't figured out how to get to a particular post number, either. I'm glad the above poster mentioned that, since I thought maybe it was just me.

There is no doubt that BGG is a fabulous framework for info on games. There needs to be a critical mass of wargamers on any particular game to make a particular game page truly useful, though. Seems like there are more "fresh" wargamers learning games here. I'm disappointed that in a niche subset of a niche hobby, there is this useless political motivation I've seen some evidence of (from users favoring each site) to snub the other site.

In my perfect world, the content from CSW would become a subset of the game pages established on BGG...and interesting discussions (like ongoing strategy debates) would be captured in a helpful format. Its nice to see several wargame designers embracing the Geek, though.

For now, I'll keep browsing both sites, but feeling more at home with the Geek's friendly interface.
 
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You have to spend some amount of time on CSW to get the feel of how it works and to get comfortable with the topics.

You have to spend some amount of time on BGG to get the feel of how it works and to get comfortable with the threads.

Both sites are very useful. BGG is slicker and has a lot more features because Aldie works on BGG as a full time job, which I and many others support with monetary donations.

CSW uses mediocre off the shelf proprietary software that the site owner has tried and been unsuccessful in porting into a new system.

If you are a DB programmer, and a wargamer, please help out John Kranz with saving the existing material and porting into a system that is more user friendly.
 
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Rich Shipley
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The one thing that makes CSW work is the one things BGG doesn't have - the Check Subscripts button. When you press it, you get posts you haven't read in a topic you have subscribed to. Press it again to go to the next topic with unread posts. Dead simple. If BGG had something like this, the forums would be much more user friendly.

I tried the RSS feed thing and besides the issue with having to check 50 RSS feeds, it isn't a friendly interface.
 
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citizen k wrote:
thrasymachus,

I hear you bud. Consimworld is just not set up for historical* browsing...


* Emphasis added. HOW FRICKIN' IRONIC IS THAT!?!?!? wow surprise shake laugh
 
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