Anthony Veltre
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Hello everyone,

Are there any difference in the hero and monster cards included in the conversion kit that was released along side the second edition descent game compared to the hero and monster expansions FFG is releasing now?

Are there any reason to pick up the hero and monster expansions if you already own all of the 1st edition sets and the conversion kit?

Alternatively if you don't own any of the first edition material is it better to pick up the monster and hero expansions or the first edition sets(if you can find a reasonable deal).

Thanks in advance for the answers and advice. I'm kind of going into this blind and looking for some serious guidance before I break the bank.
 
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Selwyn Hope
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Some monsters and heroes have been adjusted from the stats in the Conversion Kit.

You also get a couple of rumour cards and maps in the new packs.

Also the sculpts are all new and fantastic.


At this point I would advise getting the Hero and Monster sets and ignoring 1st Ed stuff and the conversion kit.
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Scott Lewis
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I'll offer an opposing viewpoint

If you already own the 1E monsters (especially if you own them ALL), I would definitely recommend the Conversion Kit. It's much cheaper, and gives you more monsters in one go.

I personally don't find the H&M packs to be "improvements". In many cases, when there are changes, they are just lateral changes that seem, to me, to be arbitrary and "change for change sake". The CK versions of everything work just fine.

The new sculpts are OK, but again, I don't find them "better", just "different". I am annoyed that for some of the monsters, they changed the size of the sculpts. The Manticore, for instance, used to be a huge imposing beast, and now it's only half the size and (again, in my opinion) much less intimidating.

All of this is subjective and based on opinion, of course. Since I own the 1E stuff already, I have the CK, and I have seen no reason to bother spending more on the H&M packs when the cards in the CK work just fine. If there are a small few stat changes that I might like, I could just make a note of them and use them without spending $30 a pop on the new stuff.

The only thing in the new packs that remotely interests me is the quests, but those are just a couple cards and sheets of paper, not enough to buy the packs just to get.


On the other hand, if you don't own any 1E stuff (or just a small portion of it), the H&M packs would be the way to go since getting the 1E stuff wouldn't be easy.


As mentioned, it's all a matter of opinion. If you have the 1E stuff, go the cheaper route and get the CK. If you don't, your easier option is to get the H&M stuff.
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Anthony Veltre
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Thanks for the answers and view points guys!

Follow up question:
Have all of the first edition monsters and heroes been released in these new packs now and if not, how many more of these packs do we expect to see? Just trying to calculate the cost vs all of the new packs vs first edition content.

Thanks!
 
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Anthony Veltre
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Another follow up question :

Mentioned above is that the new monster and hero expansions have updated cards from the conversion kit. May I ask in what way were these cards adjusted? Were the cards from the conversion kit out dated and stale because there are new abilities from the newer expansions, so the previous conversion kit cards received a face lift? Or were some of the conversion kit cards unbalanced? Op?
 
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Scott Lewis
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A good chunk of them have been released in the packs, but not all. There is a higher percentage of monsters that have been released than heroes, because there were a lot more heroes.

As for changes, it varies. Some are unchanged, some just have minor tweaks, some have pretty drastic changes. A few even changed size or group numbers. I don't think any of them depend on components from the expansions though. Maybe a few were balance tweaks, but most, at least to me, we're just changes because they could.
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Timo R
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I personally have very mixed feelings on the conversion kit and frankly would not recommend it to anyone. It contains many instances of badly balanced material which more or less can ruin your fun if you aim for a mostly competitive experience.

It seems, they did not really do their homework when designing the contents and it saw very little play testing before release. The CK might have been an economic success in building a bridge for all 1st Edition owners, but it did also a lot of damage to the game.

Many a complaint posted in this or other forums on perceived game imbalance on whichever side had the OP also stating, that the CK is available and used.

Noteworthy instances of badly designed CK content:

Hero, Aurim - 1 additional search card at no cost per encounter? This implies 25% more gold for the heroes at the least, a considerably higher chance of revealing the treasure chest. You do not even have to work for it like e.g. with the treasure hunter class. And I have not yet mentioned the free pot or else you get - guaranteed.

Hero, Nanok - Mana Weave is arguably one of the best items in the Act I Item Deck. He has it built-in right from the start without any real drawback. And it can be used for all of his attacks, not just once.

Other examples are: Elder Mok, Kobolds etc.

With the M&H packs FFG re-released CK content, but in many instances not without making changes to previously broken heroes and monsters, which are mostly well tuned now and fit in with the rest at the disposal. E.g. the Kobolds. They are still powerful, but with a catch. Now, they are a situational monster choice, like it should be with all monsters.

I could go on about this and there are certainly other opinions out there.

Bottom Line: The CK should only be used by experienced groups which know the game mechanics in and out, and know the kind of havoc some of its contents can do to a game that is always a walk on the line and extremely swingy in nature.

edit: typo
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Scott Lewis
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Callidus wrote:
I personally have very mixed feelings on the conversion kit and frankly would not recommend it to anyone. It contains many instances of badly balanced material which more or less can ruin your fun if you aim for a mostly competitive experience.

Again, I couldn't disagree with this more. I've been using the CK since it was released, and I don't find any minor imbalances to be gamebreaking or problematic in the least, from an OL or Hero perspective (I've played both).

It's all going to come down to a matter of taste, budget, and what you already have.

The H&M packs are for those that don't have 1E. For those that do, I don't think they are worth their cost.
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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I have both the conversion pack and the h&m monster kit, much easier to seperate edition 1 from edition 2 this way
 
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IMO the CK was released quickly to make a bridge with 1ed player.

I have used CK with 3D paper tokens to increase the number of Minster and heroes available at a time where only the base set was out.

I had the same feeling than Cadillus of the unbalance of some of the cards.

When the OL places 12 kobold in a room during preparation, you pray to have an exploding weapon or you weep.... (swarm can be very deadly)

Looking for the HaM when they get out, I feel that now that there were more playtests, they have adjusted the balance by little tweak (now, minor kobold are not place at the start, but are spawn at each turn).

So, you can buy HaM or take the CK and a sheet of errata (seems less fun)
 
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Quote:
So, you can buy HaM or take the CK and a sheet of errata (seems less fun)

Or you can use the CO as is, which is plenty fun if you already have the minis.

I don't consider the H&M packs as errata, just different.

I don't think the Manticore, for instance, was shrunk for balance reasons, but for cost reasons. Went from large and imposing to tiny and cute.
 
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