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Subject: Can ground units move through systems other than the destination system? rss

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Dylan Stayman
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Can a ground unit's movement path include worlds that are in neither the system that the unit is moving from or to?

In other words, can a unit move through more than one system to reach its destination? For example, to move around (not through) a warp storm.
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Ian Johnstone
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Re: I have another silly question
No I don't think so. Ground troop movement is from within the system with the Advance Order and/or from one adjacent. There is also an exception. If ship movement is from an adjacent system then the troop movement has to be from the same adjacent system.
 
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Sophia Lechner
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Re: I have another silly question
I think that you can. The rules say that a unit can only move from one adjacent system, but I don't think there's the same restriction on the path you take to get there...I would interpret "from" as meaning the place where the unit starts.

I'm pretty certain this question will never arise in play, though...the path would have to lead through at least three areas that are in neither the source nor destination systems, and those areas must all be friendly.
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stephen biggs
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Re: I have another silly question
Passing through multiple system tiles to end on an adjacent system. Seems to be ignoring any concept of a speed limit for the ships. For the specific purpose of ignoring the effect of a warp storm.
Even if there's no specific wording to forbid this, I'd house rule it as not legal.

 
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Re: I have another silly question
It's not a silly question at all and if you would please, edit your topic title to something like, "Multiple system movement question" so that future visitors to the rules section can find it easier.
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stephen biggs
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Re: I have another silly question
Ships don't require a path of friendly areas.
So allowing movement via additional system tiles would allow every race the ability of Chaos's "Via the warp" without having to buy that order card. Except for the rare condition where all 4 sides of a system tile was blocked by warp storms.

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J Kaemmer
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Re: I have another silly question
What makes this interesting to me is that while not specifically forbidden it creates some odd contradictions and questions

Movement in the rules as written assume only two adjacent systems are involved, but can we involve more? Come in from the side or behind if by some strange means the place is surrounded.

Ships are obviously blocked by the warp storm because there is no path requirements, just point-to-point.

If ships can't go through the warp storm, how can ground troops? They should have less mobility than ships...

HOWEVER, if paths that go through systems that are not the destination OR the origin are not acceptable, why is this not in the rules? All it requires is a series of contiguous friendly areas.

Warp storms COULD have been written as blocking movement between 2 systems to me more iron-clad but instead it says "units may not move through warp storms." This makes it a more spatial question than a binary answer.

Understandably the situation to go around a warp storm would require AT LEAST 3 areas to be under your control and be placed just right... I'm just awfully bugged by this.

(I still maintain the bastion rules are poorly written and scattered about, too- just fueling the gripes about the language/methods used to convey the rules thus far.)

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Dylan Stayman
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XAos wrote:
Ships don't require a path of friendly areas.
So allowing movement via additional system tiles would allow every race the ability of Chaos's "Via the warp" without having to buy that order card. Except for the rare condition where all 4 sides of a system tile was blocked by warp storms.



I haven't seen the Chaos faction sheet or ability - does it apply to all units or just ships? From my reading of the rules, ships would still be blocked by warp storms, but ground units would not be (necessarily).
 
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Howard Massey
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mistavengeance wrote:
Can a ground unit's movement path include worlds that are in neither the system that the unit is moving from or to?

In other words, can a unit move through more than one system to reach its destination? For example, to move around (not through) a warp storm.


"The world a ground unit moves from must be in the active system or one system that is adjacent to the active system. Ground units cannot move into the active system from more than one adjacent system" pg8 rule ref.
 
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Sophia Lechner
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kskato wrote:
mistavengeance wrote:
Can a ground unit's movement path include worlds that are in neither the system that the unit is moving from or to?

In other words, can a unit move through more than one system to reach its destination? For example, to move around (not through) a warp storm.


"The world a ground unit moves from must be in the active system or one system that is adjacent to the active system. Ground units cannot move into the active system from more than one adjacent system" pg8 rule ref.
Yes, I think the original poster already read that. No question that units are allowed to move from only one adjacent system. The question is whether units are allowed to move through other systems. I think probably yes? But a FAQ entry saying no would not surprise me very much.
 
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Joel Tamburo
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I guess in theory you could have this occur. You would have to have (as stated above) three other systems involved and a continuous chain of friendly areas however.

If I had to guess whether FFG intended this or not....maybe they did. In essence you can work around a Warp Storm with three Advance Orders - which means two turns of work.
 
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Arek S
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Let's forget for a while about warp storms and take a look at the map in Learn to play guide (systems 1A,11B,3B and 8A). Assume I have the Chaos Space Marines army on 1A world (there where grand Cultist stands), ship in a 3B void and a small Cultist in each of 8A worlds. It shouldn't be difficult to create such situation. Now - can I, or cannot attack 11B world with Chaos objective token? In my opinion yes, and there is no matter if there is or there isn't warp storm between 1A and 11B.
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Arek S
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drakkainen88 wrote:
Let's forget for a while about warp storms and take a look at the map in Learn to play guide (systems 1A,11B,3B and 8A). Assume I have the Chaos Space Marines army on 1A world (there where grand Cultist stands), ship in a 3B void and a small Cultist in each of 8A worlds. It shouldn't be difficult to create such situation. Now - can I, or cannot attack 11B world with Chaos objective token? In my opinion yes, and there is no matter if there is or there isn't warp storm between 1A and 11B.

There is no negation in rules to what I wrote, however it should be first thing clarified in FAQ. If this scenario is correct then I really can't understand why I'm not able to attack 11B system from 3B system. So if I really cannot attack from not adjacent system then maybe there is no possibility to create a legal path through more than 2 systems (because of distance, time of travel etc). Tough choice, it really needs an answer from the authors.
 
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Alex B
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drakkainen88 wrote:

There is no negation in rules to what I wrote, however it should be first thing clarified in FAQ. If this scenario is correct then I really can't understand why I'm not able to attack 11B system from 3B system. So if I really cannot attack from not adjacent system then maybe there is no possibility to create a legal path through more than 2 systems (because of distance, time of travel etc). Tough choice, it really needs an answer from the authors.


You can't attack 11B from 3B because they're not adjacent (rules reference, page 2: "Systems that only share the corner of a border are not
adjacent."). The first question you posed is much more interesting, though - attacking 11B from 1A, by way of 3B and 8A, looks possible, and might require clarification.
 
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Arek S
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Delobius wrote:
drakkainen88 wrote:

There is no negation in rules to what I wrote, however it should be first thing clarified in FAQ. If this scenario is correct then I really can't understand why I'm not able to attack 11B system from 3B system. So if I really cannot attack from not adjacent system then maybe there is no possibility to create a legal path through more than 2 systems (because of distance, time of travel etc). Tough choice, it really needs an answer from the authors.


You can't attack 11B from 3B because they're not adjacent (rules reference, page 2: "Systems that only share the corner of a border are not
adjacent."). The first question you posed is much more interesting, though - attacking 11B from 1A, by way of 3B and 8A, looks possible, and might require clarification.

Have you read what I wrote? (marked) I am aware why I can't attack 11B from 3B, but the reason why I cannot may be the reason why I shouldn't be able to make a manoeuvre which I described.
 
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Jesse Marzel
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This is a really good question - I think it is against the spirit of the game, but on the other hand it opens up some awesome strategies, and can cause really awesome battles and maneuvers.

I think I'll houserule it that you can. It'll make for some great moments in the game.
 
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Arek S
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I agree it is against spirit of game, cause when read rules where is written that attack can be performed by units from planet in active system plus (eventually) by units from one adjacent system then it feels like there is kind of moving limitation per one order time. The more I think about it the more I am willing to forbid such moves.
 
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Howard Massey
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JemL wrote:
kskato wrote:
mistavengeance wrote:
Can a ground unit's movement path include worlds that are in neither the system that the unit is moving from or to?

In other words, can a unit move through more than one system to reach its destination? For example, to move around (not through) a warp storm.


"The world a ground unit moves from must be in the active system or one system that is adjacent to the active system. Ground units cannot move into the active system from more than one adjacent system" pg8 rule ref.
Yes, I think the original poster already read that. No question that units are allowed to move from only one adjacent system. The question is whether units are allowed to move through other systems. I think probably yes? But a FAQ entry saying no would not surprise me very much.


Well OK , but I don't think FFG is going to waste paper in a rule book listing things you
Can't do .
They pretty-much state actions you can !

"Two systems are adjacent if they share a gold border."
Rules Ref pg 2

"The world a ground unit moves from must be in the active system or one system that is adjacent to the active system"

"Move Ground Units: The active player may move ground units to any worlds in the active system connected by a legal path (see “Moving Ground Units” on page 8). These units can move from worlds in the active system and/or one adjacent system."

"Move Ships: The active player may move ships to
any voids in the active system. These units can move from voids in the active system and/or one adjacent system.
Each ship’s starting void and destination void do not need to be adjacent.

Humm, they sure use that word adjacent alot? whistle

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Arek S
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kskato wrote:

"Move Ground Units: The active player may move ground units to any worlds in the active system connected by a legal path (see “Moving Ground Units” on page 8). These units can move from worlds in the active system and/or one adjacent system."

Thank you! This sentence clearly negates what I wrote and for sure we cannot transport units through the worlds which are not adjacent to the active system.
 
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Jesse Marzel
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From the RRG, page 8:

When one or more ground units move during an Advance
Order, they are removed from their current world and
placed on the destination world. There must be a legal path
between the starting world and the destination world.

» A legal path is a series of contiguous friendly areas
leading to the destination world. This can include worlds
and/or voids.

So, the start area and the end area need to be adjacent, yes, but i think you can use a path that goes through 2 other systems (or more!) to attack. Ships cannot move like that, but i think ground units can.
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Arek S
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JoeNothin wrote:

So, the start area and the end area need to be adjacent, yes, but i think you can use a path that goes through 2 other systems (or more!) to attack. Ships cannot move like that, but i think ground units can.

I don't buy it.

If red line is legal then the fact that blue line isn't legal is kind of an absurd.

Edit:
Or another. Imagine that red line is legal and the blue ones are not legal. It just doesn't fit.
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J Kaemmer
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drakkainen88 wrote:
JoeNothin wrote:

So, the start area and the end area need to be adjacent, yes, but i think you can use a path that goes through 2 other systems (or more!) to attack. Ships cannot move like that, but i think ground units can.

I don't buy it.

If red line is legal then the fact that blue line isn't legal is kind of an absurd.


It IS absurd but I don't think any of us have a definitive answer as why we can't do that!

Does moving that way count as moving from more than 1 system or moving from a non-adjacent? IDK. The rules and definitions of a legal path don't speak to this at all. A severe oversight.
 
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Arek S
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iswearihaveajob wrote:

It IS absurd but I don't think any of us have a definitive answer as why we can't do that!

Does moving that way count as moving from more than 1 system or moving from a non-adjacent? IDK. The rules and definitions of a legal path don't speak to this at all. A severe oversight.

Yes, it is a severe oversight.
I believe, according to all published examples, that when advance order resolves only 2 systems (adjacent and active) can be engaged. It can be thematically explained and doesn't argue with rest of limitations mentioned in rules.

Besides. There are 4 examples of resolving advance order at ffg previews and 1 example in Learn to play guide. Each of them contains only 2 systems, and legal path is shown only between 2 systems. If there were a possibility to make it in another way it would be shown.
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J Kaemmer
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Yes. It is heavily implied movement is always between 2 adjacent systems, no more no less. It just could have used a little bit more structure in defining that explicitly. I love the 2 rulebook method that FFG does now... I just think that they could work on organization and explicitness in them. We all "know" how movement works, avery important concept i this game, but if anyone questions it- we have no concrete rules to fall back on!
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Howard Massey
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drakkainen88 wrote:
JoeNothin wrote:

So, the start area and the end area need to be adjacent, yes, but i think you can use a path that goes through 2 other systems (or more!) to attack. Ships cannot move like that, but i think ground units can.

I don't buy it.

If red line is legal then the fact that blue line isn't legal is kind of an absurd.

Edit:
Or another. Imagine that red line is legal and the blue ones are not legal. It just doesn't fit.


Where did the 3rd Advance Token to move into the upper right world come from?
I don't know !

laugh laugh If there is this much 'discusstion' on movement-
what will it be like on Combat rules interpretation !!!!! cool
 
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