Tom Colddie
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Hello,

I have checked several topics but I was not able to find a satisfactory reply, so I am hoping that someone will be able to help me.

I am wondering which of the SW spaceship fight games I should buy. I tested them both in my FLGS and here is what I thought:

XW - I liked sheer number of customization options, plus that there a lot of ships I really know and like. On the other hand, I did not really like the high model count on the table in some missions (I know it can be combated by picking bigger ships with better pilots and more upgrades)and I am afraid that the game is "closed" for me, meaning that there will be no new ships I would like to acquire (as I have no interest in playing Scums or in buying the extended universe ships).

A - I like the movement more (I find the measuring stick and straight ruler less fiddly that the XW templates) plus there is much more ahead. On the flip side, the cost of this game is restrictive, to say the least, as I could probably have all XW models for a starter and all wave 1 ships.

If I chose XW, then I would probably buy one of each ships I like but I have a problem with doubles/triples - is it worth it to get 2x/3x just for the cards? I will play casually only and variety is the key, (hence the lower ship count bias), so I was wondering if buying the TIE advanced + Imperial Aces will give me the bang for the buck.

Thanks in advance and let me know what you think.
 
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Doug Bey
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What interests you more?

1) Small ship skirmishes / dog-fighting?
2) Large scale fleet battles?

This is how you should decide between the two. The other factors you mention are simply temporary "dipping your toe into the water" issues. After you invest in whichever game you prefer, it's the long-term passion for the gameplay that will matter. Picture yourself a year from now with one of those two games on your gaming shelf, having completed your initial "collection" to a satisfactory level, or at least starting level.

Speaking for myself, I wish I had known about Armada years ago when I first started getting into X-Wing. I have a VERY large X-Wing collection, and do enjoy the game, but if I were starting from scratch, I'd put my money into Armada. The large fleet battles with star destroyers and mon calamari cruisers going toe-to-toe with squadrons of fighters serving as screens or strike forces just really appeals to me. BUT, Armada and X-Wing are so similar in gameplay and design, that I can't justify owning both. They both seem to scratch that same itch.

Anyway, as I was saying make your decision soley on which style you gravitate towards. Large fleets or small snubfighter skirmishes.
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Nate Reynolds
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If you don't want scum or "EU" ships then you should probably pick a different system all together. That is where both universes are going by necessity.
The movement in xwing is much more straightforward that in armada, you don't have to deal with drift etc, you either go straight, bank or turn.

You say you want variety and 2 or 3 of each ship but then you say you don't like the model count or wanting to buy EU ships. Both of those are necessary in both games if you want the full scope of variety.



Tvaru wrote:
Hello,

I have checked several topics but I was not able to find a satisfactory reply, so I am hoping that someone will be able to help me.

I am wondering which of the SW spaceship fight games I should buy. I tested them both in my FLGS and here is what I thought:

XW - I liked sheer number of customization options, plus that there a lot of ships I really know and like. On the other hand, I did not really like the high model count on the table in some missions (I know it can be combated by picking bigger ships with better pilots and more upgrades)and I am afraid that the game is "closed" for me, meaning that there will be no new ships I would like to acquire (as I have no interest in playing Scums or in buying the extended universe ships).

A - I like the movement more (I find the measuring stick and straight ruler less fiddly that the XW templates) plus there is much more ahead. On the flip side, the cost of this game is restrictive, to say the least, as I could probably have all XW models for a starter and all wave 1 ships.

If I chose XW, then I would probably buy one of each ships I like but I have a problem with doubles/triples - is it worth it to get 2x/3x just for the cards? I will play casually only and variety is the key, (hence the lower ship count bias), so I was wondering if buying the TIE advanced + Imperial Aces will give me the bang for the buck.

Thanks in advance and let me know what you think.
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Christian Ebeling
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I haven't played Armada and don't own anything Armada, yet- but I would love to whistle

My X-Wing Collection consists of all ships from wave 1-4 (no Headhunter, TIE Phantom or E-Wing) with multiples of all the small ships (at least 2 copies each and 3 A-Wing/B-Wing, 4 Interceptor/X-Wing, 6 TIEs) and one of each large ship.

I play casually most of the time and I am not really interested in the Expanded Universe, but I don't mind seeing ships that are not from the movies on the table. I am planning to get one copy of the Most Wanted Expansion, Starviper and Honund's Tooth for variety, but after that I think I am done with X-Wing.
Purchasing, of course, not playing

If I were to start from scratch right now (like you are) and had to decide wich one to get (and only one?) I would probably choose Armada over X-Wing.
Again, I haven't played it, but just the look and feel of it, with the difference in maneuvering, tactical goals, Capital Ships etc. has a much greater appeal to me. And it kind of feels "more" Star Wars. More epic.

But they are two very different games.

Some things to consider and keep in mind:

X-Wing:
- relatively smaller investment to get the game up and running when you are not planning on owning everything and participating in tournaments
- faster to set up
- faster to explain (I guess)
- faster to play
- "dogfighting" might be more your thing compared to fleet battles?
- but the whole maneuvering aspect that makes it so appealing can become a big "bump fest" when ships in the furball keep colliding and all your mastmind maneuvers don't work out (but you said you would be going for more elite ships and fewer generics anyway).

And now for the good old "what to buy", if you chose X-Wing:

- Multiple TIEs are recommended since the Empire is geared more to quantity and you need those to fill out most of your lists.
- One of every Expansion is a good idea, but make that two Core Sets for extra dice, a second X-Wing (they are the iconic ship) and two more TIES.
- Both Aces Expansions offer great ships, upgrades and value for the money and you should get those on top of the individual Interceptor/A-/B-Wing expansions as well (or even before those)
- Get the individual X-Wing and TIE expansion for the exclusive pilots
- Defenitely get a TIE Advanced when you play casually (because of Vader), but one might be enough in that case

And always remeber that you can proxy all you like when playing casually, print your lists from online squadbuilders etc., so there is no needt to buy expansion packs just for the cards/upgrades.

Oh, and Armada might become "closed" pretty fast, too, when you are not insterestd in ships from the Expanded Universe.

Have Fun!


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Angelus Seniores
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a big difference between x-wing and armada is the amount of planning required during play;
Armada requires more planning ahead for choosing the maneuvers/soeed and targets of your attacks, up to 3-4 turns ahead, something that can be a bit difficult.
Armada also only lasts 6 rounds which can sometimes cut you short.

with X-wing planning mostly only goes 1 or 2 turns ahead but not more as you can easily change your speed/maneuver/direction each turn
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Tom Colddie
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Thank you very much for all the comments, you all helped me and other people with the same problem a lot. I think the long-term approach is right here and the longer perspective means Armada will have more ships than it has now (XW too but they have used up all ships known to me already, I think) and in a longer time the higher cost seems a bit less painful. Plus, I noticed that wave 2 of Armada will have most of the ships I liked a lot in XW as tiny models, so that looks cool and more affordable at the same time.

 
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Peter O
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If movie ships are your thing AND you want a variety of ships, Armada may not be the way to go. There just aren't enough movie capital ships. So I would suggest only doing Armada is you are comfortable with some non-movie ships, or like the dynamics of movie only and don't mind the limited selection.

All that said, I sold my x-wing collection to buy Armada and haven't regretted one bit. (I'm more a fleet guy than a dogfighter)
 
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Xander Fulton
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Katogamerguy wrote:
If you don't want scum or "EU" ships then you should probably pick a different system all together. That is where both universes are going by necessity.


Yeah, I was going to say - with X-Wing, at least the core set and most of the first few waves are movie stuff.

With Armada, right in the core set you jump into the expanded universe - the Victory-class Star Destroyer has never been see on-screen. And 3/4 of the wave 1 ships are all EU.

Armada is going to be pulling a HECK of a lot more from the EU than X-Wing will be...
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John Culp
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there's significant EU stuff in both games, starting with wave 1 pilots in X-wing. But if someone wants to stick with OT stuff, stopping at Wave 3 (+ maybe both Aces packs?) with x-wing gives you a really well developed game. It leans towards generic ships over elite pilots, but has lots of customization and options while still allowing you to play with your favoite OT ships.
 
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Kevin Goodman
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I read that FFG has access to some aspects of the new movies. I wonder if some of the currently EU stuff will soon be seen in a movie? (Victory class Star Destroyer?)

Complete speculation on my part but it would seem reasonable that new movie tie-ins could be subtly starting to happen.
 
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I like Armada better, let me start by pointing that out.

Extended Universe: this bothered me more in X-Wing than it seems to in Armada. I preferred movie ships in X-Wing, I play almost exclusively movie ships, and I only own a few non-movie ships. I don't really care that they exist in X-Wing, but I am a little put off that there are some cards I would like to have that only come with ships I don't want.

Playtime, ease of explanation, etc: I've brought X-Wing home and played with my parents. I wouldn't bother doing that with Armada. X-Wing is easier to transport, easier to teach, easier to play a quick game.

Cards: so far, Armada has not included any "must have" upgrade cards for one ship packaged exclusively with a ship from the other faction. Auto-Thrusters, I shake my fist at you!

"Feel:" Armada feels and looks on the table like a ragtag fleet of rebels facing down a local piece of the Imperial Navy. X-Wing had the same feels in the first two waves, but as more ships came out and I played more competitively, it lost that. The same may happen to Armada, but it is too soon to tell.

Cost: Get an X-Wing core set. $20-$30 to give the game a shop is a pretty good deal, and even if you go to Armada you end up with some sweet office decorations.

So: go with Armada. Unless you don't!
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So I was curious enough about the various 'cost' comparisons thrown around, and finally did a solid comparison just to give an idea:

Cool Stuff Inc:

X-wing:All Imperial Ships and Rebels ships currently released(no Scum since Armada has no 3rd faction), barring Huge Ships. 2 cores, 2 of each blister except the HWK(just 1) and 1 of each Boxed set(including the aces meaning more than 2 of some ships!). I figure that's enough variety for folks to buy and pretty much play forever and be cool with it. Yes you might want one more of XY or Z ship, but, this is to give a 'solid' example.

It's the X, Y, A, B, E, Z-95, yt-200, yt-1300, HWK-290, TIE, Tie-Adv, TIE-Int, TIE-Bomb, TIE-Phan, TIE-Def, Shuttle, Firespray, and Decimator.

18 Ship types+cards, pilots yadda yadda.

Total:$443$

Armada:2 Cores and 2 of each ship released, 2 of each Squadron Pack. Some might argue you only need 1 of the VSD, and they may feel free to tweak numbers in their minds, this is my show and it was good to be consistant, 'large base; minis I'd put in at 1, but we don't have any yet.

It's the Victory, Gladiator, Nebulon B, Cr-90, Assault Frigate, Imperial Squadrons, and Rebel Squadrons.

7 'Ship' types(count squadrons as 1 ship type, just because.. would count new blisters as one more 'type' etc) plus cards.. no pilots, but more cards, etc.

Total:$413

The difference is pretty intense. Nearly the same investment gets you all the X-wing forever as gets your foot in the door for Armada. I know 'it costs more' has been said, but just how MUCH more it costs is something it feels like a lot of reviewers gloss over.
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I have to agree that if you don't want EU stuff then Armada is NOT the game for you. The capital ships are heavily EU based, even if the Victory is basically just a smaller version of the Imperial Star Destroyers from the movies.
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Xander Fulton
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Shadrach wrote:
The difference is pretty intense. Nearly the same investment gets you all the X-wing forever as gets your foot in the door for Armada. I know 'it costs more' has been said, but just how MUCH more it costs is something it feels like a lot of reviewers gloss over.


Eh...I think it's not quite that bad.

First off, you definitely need more for X-Wing - your 'two of each blister, one of each box', etc...may get you enough for casual play, but definitely not tournament
- 3x B-Wing (arguably enough, but 4x is more popular)
- 3x A-Wing (not nearly enough)
- No huge ships you concede, which eliminates some of the more powerful builds for the Rebels
- ...and the Empire, as you are building on only what is released right now, while we are mere weeks away from a HUGE new release for the Empire, and then more Scum, Empire, Rebels, etc later in the summer

On top of that, of course, X-Wing does keep putting out new stuff. Even if the EU ships aren't your cup of tea, existing ships see periodic re-releases in Huge expansions or 'Aces' kits, etc.
 
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XanderF wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
The difference is pretty intense. Nearly the same investment gets you all the X-wing forever as gets your foot in the door for Armada. I know 'it costs more' has been said, but just how MUCH more it costs is something it feels like a lot of reviewers gloss over.


Eh...I think it's not quite that bad.

First off, you definitely need more for X-Wing - your 'two of each blister, one of each box', etc...may get you enough for casual play, but definitely not tournament
- 3x B-Wing (arguably enough, but 4x is more popular)
- 3x A-Wing (not nearly enough)
- No huge ships you concede, which eliminates some of the more powerful builds for the Rebels
- ...and the Empire, as you are building on only what is released right now, while we are mere weeks away from a HUGE new release for the Empire, and then more Scum, Empire, Rebels, etc later in the summer

On top of that, of course, X-Wing does keep putting out new stuff. Even if the EU ships aren't your cup of tea, existing ships see periodic re-releases in Huge expansions or 'Aces' kits, etc.


I was talking casual play, Casual with a healthy variety. Since when are Huge ships allowed in non-Epic play? And my point wasn't that X-wing will stop, just you could have a wealth of play right now, for a long long time, while the same cost is just getting you to bare minimums with Armada.
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Ha ha ha ha ha Falcon without C3PO... not having a CR90 in X-Wing cuts out, what, 75% of the tournament builds in 2014?

If you are looking at just casual with healthy variety, you can replace a second Armada core set with a $10 dice pack, and cut out a second Victory. On top of that, you have "purchased" enough of each ship in Armada for a full tournament fleet exclusively of each ship, while in X-Wing you have "purchased" enough for around 50% to 2/3 for each ship.
 
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monkeykins wrote:
Ha ha ha ha ha Falcon without C3PO... not having a CR90 in X-Wing cuts out, what, 75% of the tournament builds in 2014?

If you are looking at just casual with healthy variety, you can replace a second Armada core set with a $10 dice pack, and cut out a second Victory. On top of that, you have "purchased" enough of each ship in Armada for a full tournament fleet exclusively of each ship, while in X-Wing you have "purchased" enough for around 50% to 2/3 for each ship.


Right, that was the other half I was getting to - sorry, was interrupted.

The list seemed like it was pretty considerably under-buying for X-Wing, and pretty considerably OVER-buying for Armada.

For myself, I really can't see ever needing more than one of any Armada blister/pack. *Maybe* a pair of CR90 and Nebulon-B expansions beyond the one core set...MAYBE...but that's it. No sense even buying duplicates of the fighters, as there is a hard cap on how many squadrons you can bring, and just one core set, one of each faction's blister, and the upcoming heavy fighters, will give you all the options you could take to fill that out.
 
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monkeykins wrote:
Cards: so far, Armada has not included any "must have" upgrade cards for one ship packaged exclusively with a ship from the other faction. Auto-Thrusters, I shake my fist at you!


the XI7 turbolaser, Flight Controllers, Point Defense Reroute, Advanced Projectors, leading shots and Ion Cannon Batteries all disagree with you.

All of these are seeing regular play (well maybe not Ion Batteries) by the faction that did not receive them in their packaging at my local shop. Is there any way to run the Galant Haven other than with Flight Controllers?
 
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SirNot wrote:
monkeykins wrote:
Cards: so far, Armada has not included any "must have" upgrade cards for one ship packaged exclusively with a ship from the other faction. Auto-Thrusters, I shake my fist at you!


the XI7 turbolaser, Flight Controllers, Point Defense Reroute, Advanced Projectors, leading shots and Ion Cannon Batteries all disagree with you.

All of these are seeing regular play (well maybe not Ion Batteries) by the faction that did not receive them in their packaging at my local shop. Is there any way to run the Galant Haven other than with Flight Controllers?


Yes? That combo isn't essential, nor do they rise to the level of "necessity" that PtL on a TIE Interceptor has. Flight Controllers boosts squad on squad damage, great for anti-squad specific fighters like TIEs and Interceptors, while the Haven helps protect nearby squads. Boosting the damage of activated squads doesn't require additional protection for squads that stay close to your ship. A Gladiator with either title combines with Engine Techs about as well as PtL + Soontir Fel, but you don't need to buy a Nebulon B to get it- to run Fel with PtL you need either an A-Wing or, now, Aces.
 
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Shadrach wrote:
I was talking casual play, Casual with a healthy variety. Since when are Huge ships allowed in non-Epic play? And my point wasn't that X-wing will stop, just you could have a wealth of play right now, for a long long time, while the same cost is just getting you to bare minimums with Armada.


So to summarise, you believe the following equation to be true:

'Bare minimums with Armada' for 'casual play' = FOUR Victory class Star Destroyers?!
 
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raw_bean wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
I was talking casual play, Casual with a healthy variety. Since when are Huge ships allowed in non-Epic play? And my point wasn't that X-wing will stop, just you could have a wealth of play right now, for a long long time, while the same cost is just getting you to bare minimums with Armada.


So to summarise, you believe the following equation to be true:

'Bare minimums with Armada' for 'casual play' = FOUR Victory class Star Destroyers?!


I did mention that was off It's an imperfect measurement, but honestly if you want to throw wave 2 into the mix(adding I believe 4 more ships total) you can more than pass the same results while still paring down the aberrations of too many of a model. I added doubled of each box/blister because of cards that come included folks may want duplicates of even in casual play. If the VSD has none of these feel free to knock it down to one, again I think the comparison is resilient enough.
 
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Peter O
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Shadrach wrote:

I did mention that was off :P It's an imperfect measurement, but honestly if you want to throw wave 2 into the mix(adding I believe 4 more ships total) you can more than pass the same results while still paring down the aberrations of too many of a model. I added doubled of each box/blister because of cards that come included folks may want duplicates of even in casual play. If the VSD has none of these feel free to knock it down to one, again I think the comparison is resilient enough.


I'm finding no must have duplicates for casual.

One core and one of everything (including 1 dice pack) is a perfect casual set. A budget casual set can easily be had if a friend is also buying in. Buy 2 cores and split them into rebel and imperial. Each player now has functional (and enjoyable) 300 pt lists for casual, and can buy expansion packs as desired, not as needed.

None of the aforementioned upgrades are critical, certainly not in multiples and certainly not for casual.

If you think they are critical for casual, then you may need to reevaluate your definition of "critical".

 
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tranenturm wrote:
Shadrach wrote:

I did mention that was off It's an imperfect measurement, but honestly if you want to throw wave 2 into the mix(adding I believe 4 more ships total) you can more than pass the same results while still paring down the aberrations of too many of a model. I added doubled of each box/blister because of cards that come included folks may want duplicates of even in casual play. If the VSD has none of these feel free to knock it down to one, again I think the comparison is resilient enough.


I'm finding no must have duplicates for casual.

One core and one of everything (including 1 dice pack) is a perfect casual set. A budget casual set can easily be had if a friend is also buying in. Buy 2 cores and split them into rebel and imperial. Each player now has functional (and enjoyable) 300 pt lists for casual, and can buy expansion packs as desired, not as needed.

None of the aforementioned upgrades are critical, certainly not in multiples and certainly not for casual.

If you think they are critical for casual, then you may need to reevaluate your definition of "critical".



The thing is, if one list is sufficient, the cost comparisons will still be the same, if 'one of each' is sufficient for you you'll still see similar comparisons. Armada also(at this point) suffers from one of eaching more than X-wing does, due to fewer Chasis to work with. (In time Armada will have more models out, but then again, if you go 1 each 18 ships of either, well, you get the price point thing again.

I'm not going to hem and haw anymore. Folks are welcome to poke at it any way they like, it's information presented as stated, the math isn't wrong and so I'm sure discerning readers can decide for themselves if the analysis has value to them.
 
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Shadrach wrote:
it's information presented as stated, the math isn't wrong and so I'm sure discerning readers can decide for themselves if the analysis has value to them.


Yes, I'm sure you added things correctly. That's not the point. The point is that the two systems don't require a mirrored purchase strategy. I'm not pretending Armada is cheap, but my own purchase strategy for X-wing is not being mirrored in Armada.
 
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Christian Ebeling
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This is a review of Armada by a former X-Wing Player.

Especially the end of the review might be helpful to you (investment and comparison to X-Wing):

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1357856/review-former-x-...

 
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