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Subject: No Turning Back Preview: Consecration rss

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mplain
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http://run4games.com/dtr-consecration

I'll need some time to get over the fact that it doesn't do 2 damage to all opposing dudes
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Jon Fox
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So if I was running multiple copies of this, could I consecrate a dude on lowball and then consecrate him again in the shootout if they are cheating? It seems like you could but part of me feels weird about it, like consecrating the same guy twice seems funny.
 
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Richard Dickson
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If I have multiple Pagliaccios, I can target the same dude with them. Don't see why you couldn't do the same with multiple Consecrations.
 
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mplain
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Nothing prevents you from buffing the same dude twice. Although depending on the state of the board it might make more sense to buff two different dudes.

Also note that this spell doesn't require booting to use, so after you cast it you can still feed it to The Arsenal, Felix, or Sister Lois.
 
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Davido
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Artwork by Daniel Jimínez Villalba
 
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Alan Castree
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Just confirming; the dude who has this miracle doesn't need to be involved in the shoutout for the shootouts ability to occur. It doesn't say "shootout" for its ability. Is this right? Just having this on the table would be NUTS!!

The only other cheating resolution like that I can think of is Philip Swinfords ability which isn't as big of an effect on your opponent.

EDIT: to add more detail, Lucinda and Tommy boy say "their" shootout (ie: Tommy's shootout) but this card only says "if this is a shootout" referring to the cheating resolution. Or are we supposed to assume this dude is involved in the shoutout? If sooooo.... Time to edit the FAQ again!
 
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mplain
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You should differentiate abilities and traits.

Lucy, Tommy and Philip have traits, not abilities, and traits trigger no matter where the dude is. So, Lucy and Tommy specify that their traits trigger only if they themselves participate in the shootout. There's no such restriction on Philip, so you mayb trigger his trait even if he's not involved in the shootout.

On the other hand, Shootout and Resolution abilities (they have a "Cost: effect" format) can only originate from your hand or from a dude, goods, or spell in this shootout, or they must bring a dude into a posse (then the source may be outside the shootout).
 
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Alan Castree
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mplain wrote:
You should differentiate abilities and traits.

Lucy, Tommy and Philip have traits, not abilities, and traits trigger no matter where the dude is. So, Lucy and Tommy specify that their traits trigger only if they themselves participate in the shootout. There's no such restriction on Philip, so you maybe trigger his trait even if he's not involved in the shootout.

On the other hand, Shootout and Resolution abilities (they have a "Cost: effect" format) can only originate from your hand or from a dude, goods, or spell in this shootout, or they must bring a dude into a posse (then the source may be outside the shootout).


Got it. It's this line from the rules that made things clear:

Slingin' Lead: Step 4 wrote:
Starting with the Winner (or the first player with a dude in a posse going clockwise from the Winner if the Winner has no dudes in the shootout) and proceeding clockwise, each player with a dude in the shootout either passes or plays a Resolution ability until all players pass consecutively.
 
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mplain
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What you quoted actually refers to multiplayer, where a third party with no dudes participating in the shootout cannot play Shootout or Resolution abilities, leaving the other two players to sort it out between themselves.

Also note that the next rules passage specifies: "Any player can play a Cheatin' Resolution action card, even if that player is not in the shootout".
 
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Alan Castree
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mplain wrote:
What you quoted actually refers to multiplayer, where a third party with no dudes participating in the shootout cannot play Shootout or Resolution abilities, leaving the other two players to sort it out between themselves.

Also note that the next rules passage specifies: "Any player can play a Cheatin' Resolution action card, even if that player is not in the shootout".


Dang... messed up again.

So you're saying that what I initially thought was true and that this Miracle can be used even if the Dude isn't in the shootout. Therefore we should kill that dude as quickly as possible (if we're thinking about cheating). Is that right?
 
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mplain
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No.

There is a difference between traits and abilities.
Abilities have a certain format: "Cost: effect".
Consecration is a spell with an ability printed on it, specifically a Cheatin' Resolution ability.

Rulebook (Slingin' Lead, Step 4. Reveal and Resolve) says:
Quote:
Players can play Resolution abilities on action cards from their play hand (not their draw hand). They can also use abilities printed on dudes, goods, or spells that are involved in the shootout.
Quote:
Resolution abilities used during a Shootout can only affect dudes in a posse, unless that ability would bring a dude into the posse.
Thus:
1) you can only use the ability printed on Consecration if the dude with this spell is actually participating in the shootout;
2) you can only target (give +2 bullets and +2 influence) a dude who is participating in the shootout.
 
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Richard Dickson
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But if it's used as a cheatin' resolution during lowball, any one of your dudes is fair game.
 
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Alan Castree
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mplain wrote:
No.

There is a difference between traits and abilities.
Abilities have a certain format: "Cost: effect".
Consecration is a spell with an ability printed on it, specifically a Cheatin' Resolution ability.

Rulebook (Slingin' Lead, Step 4. Reveal and Resolve) says:
Quote:
Players can play Resolution abilities on action cards from their play hand (not their draw hand). They can also use abilities printed on dudes, goods, or spells that are involved in the shootout.
Quote:
Resolution abilities used during a Shootout can only affect dudes in a posse, unless that ability would bring a dude into the posse.
Thus:
1) you can only use the ability printed on Consecration if the dude with this spell is actually participating in the shootout;
2) you can only target (give +2 bullets and +2 influence) a dude who is participating in the shootout.


Okay, let me reword my question a little. If the dude the miracle is attached to isn't in the shootout he can still use it on someone who is? That's what I've been trying to get at.

ACGalaga wrote:
..this Miracle can be used even if the Dude isn't in the shootout.

What I meant to say was "Dude it's attached to."

EDIT: You still said he needs to be in the shootout.

But you also said: "Any player can play a Cheatin' Resolution action card, even if that player is not in the shootout".

EDIT 2: You're right. I'll stop dragging this on. if the dude isnt in the shootout he can't use a cheating resolution. Makes sense (but not really). One part of the rules says you can and another says you can't.
 
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mplain
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Quote:
"Any player can play a Cheatin' Resolution action card, even if that player is not in the shootout"

This refers specifically to Action cards, not dudes, goods, or spells with Cheatin' Resolution abilities.
 
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Alan Castree
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Roger, Actions on Action cards and Actions on other cards are played differently. Ok, makes sense. I'm an idiot. Going back to my corner now.

For the record, I didn't want it to be usable outside of a shootout.
 
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mplain
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ACGalaga wrote:
Roger, Actions on Action cards and Actions on other cards are played differently. Ok, makes sense.

No.

Abilities on action cards and abilities on other cards are played differently.
 
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Alan Castree
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mplain wrote:
ACGalaga wrote:
Roger, Actions on Action cards and Actions on other cards are played differently. Ok, makes sense.

No.

Abilities on action cards and abilities on other cards are played differently.


Same thing. You like using the word "no" don't you...
 
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Andrew Albertsen
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ACGalaga wrote:
mplain wrote:
ACGalaga wrote:
Roger, Actions on Action cards and Actions on other cards are played differently. Ok, makes sense.

No.

Abilities on action cards and abilities on other cards are played differently.


Same thing. You like using the word "no" don't you...


In Doomtown wording, the word "Actions" refers to club cards. When you say the word Actions, you're referring to abilities on cards. So yes, in a way, it's the same thing... BUT mplain is trying to keep wording consistent, and that's why he said no. I thoroughly enjoyed the confusion of this conversation though!
 
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Alan Castree
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gmbalbee wrote:
In Doomtown wording, the word "Actions" refers to club cards. When you say the word Actions, you're referring to abilities on cards. So yes, in a way, it's the same thing... BUT mplain is trying to keep wording consistent, and that's why he said no. I thoroughly enjoyed the confusion of this conversation though!


Thanks for the response and you're both totally right. I feel that I have a pretty decent grasp of the rules for this game (which can be a bit tricky), and sing the keywords correctly is pretty important. There's quite a bit of jargon to keep in mind so I best keep working on that

 
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Daniel Jiménez Villalba
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davido wrote:
Artwork by Daniel Jimínez Villalba


Thanks!!!
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