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Subject: Coalitions, elections, key issues etc... rss

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ヴェリ=ミッコアイヤラ
Finland
Sastamala
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I have went through all posts here, and there is still some things unclear...


1.When players win by a coalition, they both place one opinion card on the stateboard.Coalition partner with the most votes places the opinion card first. If the stateboard is full, can the other player exhance the opinion card he chooses to the opinion that the first player just placed on the state board.


2.When several players are tied at the election, is it so that the upmost player(who converted his markers last)on the votes track wins by a nose, the second one gets to place one media marker and other players get nothing.


3.Forming coalitions:

Which is the way how the coalitions are formed in the NEW rules?

a) Players, who can form a coalitions, have now one chance to ask/force other player(who can form a coalition with him) to coalition. This is done in normal player order. (like in Scott Nicholson's video)

b) Players can first form coalitions voluntary beetween themselves. And after that, if possible, players can force coalitions in normal player order.


4. When players place opinion cards on the state board, They can "lock" card by placing second card(of the same type) on top of the other card. Is it possible to the player to place third card on top of the two(and possibly gain more points in the end). I think that in the previous rules this is possible, but how is it in the valley games rules.

5. When there is key issue tile on the opinion card, is it possible to place this card on the stateboard by the election winner? (new rules simply state that this card cannot be removed, until it is reduced to a normal issue)


6. What is the tiebraker, if players players are tied in the game end?
 
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Mike Olson
United States
New York
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Quasi wrote:
1.When players win by a coalition, they both place one opinion card on the stateboard.Coalition partner with the most votes places the opinion card first. If the stateboard is full, can the other player exhance the opinion card he chooses to the opinion that the first player just placed on the state board.


I would think not. Once the issue board is full, do you not keep placing new issues into the left-most (non-locked) spot when replacing (and not cancelling an issue with its opposite position)? If you could, I'd think that the bigger partner would place an issue last, since otherwise his issue could be replaced.

Quasi wrote:
2.When several players are tied at the election, is it so that the upmost player(who converted his markers last)on the votes track wins by a nose, the second one gets to place one media marker and other players get nothing.


Yes. This is one reason that turn order is very important. If you're the first player at 50 and two others get 50 after you, you get no media marker or issue on the national board.

Quasi wrote:
3.Forming coalitions:

Which is the way how the coalitions are formed in the NEW rules?

a) Players, who can form a coalitions, have now one chance to ask/force other player(who can form a coalition with him) to coalition. This is done in normal player order. (like in Scott Nicholson's video)

b) Players can first form coalitions voluntary beetween themselves. And after that, if possible, players can force coalitions in normal player order.


From what I understand, first players go in play order to force a coalition if possible. After that, players go in play order to agree to coalitions. In our last game, this was an issue, as player 1 wanted a coalition with player 2, but player 5 was able to force a coalition with player 1.

Quasi wrote:
4. When players place opinion cards on the state board, They can "lock" card by placing second card(of the same type) on top of the other card. Is it possible to the player to place third card on top of the two(and possibly gain more points in the end). I think that in the previous rules this is possible, but how is it in the valley games rules.


No, you can only "lock" an issue once.

Quasi wrote:
5. When there is key issue tile on the opinion card, is it possible to place this card on the stateboard by the election winner? (new rules simply state that this card cannot be removed, until it is reduced to a normal issue)


Yes, a card with a x2 marker on it can be placed on the national board.

Quasi wrote:
6. What is the tiebraker, if players players are tied in the game end?


This I have no idea. I'd be quite surprised if a game ended in a tie. If I were to pick one, it'd be national party members followed by total votes.
 
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Eric Sanders
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Quasi wrote:
I have went through all posts here, and there is still some things unclear...


1.When players win by a coalition, they both place one opinion card on the stateboard.Coalition partner with the most votes places the opinion card first. If the stateboard is full, can the other player exhance the opinion card he chooses to the opinion that the first player just placed on the state board.


Not to disregard others opinions, but when previously asked in the link below, some were in favor of allowing the junior coalition partner swap out the card just placed (and although I didn't comment on it, I favor it as well - mostly for the reasons stated there).

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/112197

Quasi wrote:
2.When several players are tied at the election, is it so that the upmost player(who converted his markers last)on the votes track wins by a nose, the second one gets to place one media marker and other players get nothing.


I agree with everyone else on this one - top two markers only.

Quasi wrote:
3.Forming coalitions:

Which is the way how the coalitions are formed in the NEW rules?

a) Players, who can form a coalitions, have now one chance to ask/force other player(who can form a coalition with him) to coalition. This is done in normal player order. (like in Scott Nicholson's video)

b) Players can first form coalitions voluntary beetween themselves. And after that, if possible, players can force coalitions in normal player order.


Again, not to be recalcitrant, but some people - including myself - think that there is one round through player order for coalition formation. Player 1 can either Force and/or Offer coalitions until he is "done" (only joining one - obviously), then Player 2 can Force or Offer, etc. This previous post contains some of the discussion:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/135296

This post also addresses the issue, with the two last posts being the most enlightening (to me), especially the clarification of the 2nd Ed. German rules:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/80632

I think people on all sides of this issue would agree that the VG rule is unclear. Either there should be another clause in the sentence indicating you can form voluntary coalitions at the same time you can force coalitions, or there should be some clear indication of two coalition rounds (forced, then voluntary - both in player order).

Perhaps Rik will comment...

Quasi wrote:
4. When players place opinion cards on the state board, They can "lock" card by placing second card(of the same type) on top of the other card. Is it possible to the player to place third card on top of the two(and possibly gain more points in the end). I think that in the previous rules this is possible, but how is it in the valley games rules.


I agree that VG rules allow for only one additional card to "secure" a National Opinion.

Quasi wrote:
5. When there is key issue tile on the opinion card, is it possible to place this card on the stateboard by the election winner? (new rules simply state that this card cannot be removed, until it is reduced to a normal issue)


I agree here as well - you can certainly place a key issue to the National Board (even though the x2 marker isn't removed until "set up for next round". I guess the card isn't "removed" (which is disallowed by the x2 tile) so much as "moved" (this could be clearer).

Quasi wrote:
6. What is the tiebraker, if players players are tied in the game end?


Here's an unofficial discussion of it - decide what you will...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/16802
 
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Chris
United States
Huntington Station
New York
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Quasi wrote:
3.Forming coalitions:

Which is the way how the coalitions are formed in the NEW rules?


The new rules never say anywhere when Voluntary Coalitions may be formed (mentioned only twice in the rules that it is possible, but never when, nor how).

My take, conformant with prior editions, is: Beginning with the starting party then continuing clockwise, each party may request a voluntary coalition on another or force a coalition on another.

The implication so far seems to be that VG may intend 2 rounds of Coalition forming:

1) In Turn, each party may Force a Coalition on one other party, then
2) Voluntary Coalitions (as you like ?? this is never described).

It seems that either approach will work just fine. You'll have to decide for yourself how to handle Voluntary Coalitions. A free-for-all sounds like fun, really, but note that only parties with a Coalition Tile in the current state may participate, and eligible partners must have 2 or 3 matching Opinions (Voluntary or Forced, respectively).

In the spirit of the game, maybe you should call a Vote on this.
 
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