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Subject: Undead Units and Spears rss

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Jon David Faeth
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UNDEAD UNITS

Green: Move up to two hexes with no attack or Move up to one hex and attack.
Blue: Move up to one hex and attack.
Red: Move up to one hex with no attack or Attack with no movement.

Bold (all): Animated corpses are beyond fearless. They ignore all retreat flags rolled against them.
Frightening: Non-undead units which are forced to retreat by an undead unit become frightened (escape two hexes/flag, check for panic losses).

WEAPON: SPEARS

These act as a reverse short swords. Spears are a melee weapon, and score bonus hits against mounted units only.
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Philip Thomas
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Good stuff! Does this have any official sanction?

 
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Miguel de la Casa
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I had very similar ideas. I'd only add Undead must ignore flags.
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Jerry Hawthorne
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I like this alot!!
 
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Steve Willson
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I'd like to see expansions that include senarios, some ideas:

Saint George vs. The Dragon

Saint Patrick vs. The Serpent(men)
 
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Brian
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roujin27 wrote:
UNDEAD UNITS

Green: Move up to two hexes with no attack or Move up to one hex and attack.
Blue: Move up to one hex and attack.
Red: Move up to one hex with no attack or Attack with no movement.

Bold (all): Animated corpses are beyond fearless. They ignore all retreat flags rolled against them.
Frightening: Non-undead units which are forced to retreat by an undead unit become frightened (escape two hexes/flag, check for panic losses).

It's not a bad start, but here are some thoughts/issues with this:

* Your abilities need some names. Fearless & Horror... or something.
* Races are both abilities and unit types. I'm assuming you are stating that there are no mounted undead (which makes sense, I guess). How about Archers? Is it just Short Swords and Spears?
* You've now changed what green, blue and red mean for an entire race, which makes it confusing. Would it would make more sense to (a) not allow green undead units and (b) have them roll once less die during attack. This means that there is nothing resembling your "red" type, but those would be so slow anyway that they would be frustrating to use.
* Shouldn't your frightening add an additional hex (so that Goblins would retreat 3 hexes per flag)?
 
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Barry Kendall
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Since undead induce Dread, but aren't the most agile fighters in most systems, I'd suggest a couple of things:

1. Every Flag rolled against an unsupported Undead unit becomes a Hit instead. Every Flag beyond the first rolled against a Supported Undead unit is counted as a Hit. Undead never retreat.

2. Flags rolled by attacking Undead compel one additional hex of retreat for every unit type.

3. Undead units never gain Leader bonuses (the Leader is busy enough just animating and directing the Undead).

4. It also might be fitting to require that Undead fight offensively one class down from their color--for instance, Heavy Undead Infantry attack as Medium Infantry.

5. Undead Cavalry might have a similar effect on enemy Cavalry as Elephants or Camels in C&C: Ancients (horses dread Undead).
 
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Mark McEvoy
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Barry Kendall wrote:
5. Undead Cavalry might have a similar effect on enemy Cavalry as Elephants or Camels in C&C: Ancients (horses dread Undead).


Keep in mind BL Cavalry isn't all horse-mounted. For instance, the Hobgoblin Light Cavalry rides Lizards.
 
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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I've just listened to Tom Vasel's interview to Richard Borg, and here are some things he said:

- He explicitely talked about Undeads when describing the playtesting process of BL! He said they begin playing historical battles, and then they ask themselves "what about giving Wallace an Undead or Orc or Goblin army"? So I'd say that an undead army should be on its way in 2007...

- Tom traded a Warhammer 40k army to Richard recently, and he and his team are begining to think about a C&C "dark future" or so (I don't remember his words). The science fiction version someone on BGG was joking about last year! But it's far from being ready, he'll speed it up only if an editor comes to ask for it NOW...

- The C&C Napoleonics seems to be his favorite, he talks about it almost every time he has an opportunity to! He said something like "it will be the most wargamerish version of C&C", and it will definitely "feel napoleonic" (don't know what that means!)...

If you have some time go and listen to it!
Miguel
 
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Jon David Faeth
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Good stuff! Does this have any official sanction?

I wish!
aristarco wrote:
I'd only add Undead must ignore flags.

Makes pretty good sense good sense to me. How about battleback? I'd say yes, but I could think of arguments for or against.
shadowTerp wrote:
* Races are both abilities and unit types. I'm assuming you are stating that there are no mounted undead (which makes sense, I guess).

Are you suggesting there are no mounted Goblins?
shadowTerp wrote:
How about Archers? Is it just Short Swords and Spears?

Speaking thematically, I would assume they can use whatever weapons they are directed to carry by their master.
shadowTerp wrote:
* You've now changed what green, blue and red mean for an entire race, which makes it confusing.

It seems to me that the unit type (mounted, foot, creature, etc...) is different from the weapon they use (bow, short sword, long sword). After all, foot units have different movement from mounted units, same race or not.

On the other hand, these could be racial fetures, which would allow for mounted undead (could be fun), but we'd have to come up with movement for skeletal horses, and I'm too tired for that right now.
shadowTerp wrote:
* Shouldn't your frightening add an additional hex (so that Goblins would retreat 3 hexes per flag)?

umm... I dunno. Play it and see what you think.
Barry Kendall wrote:
1. Every Flag rolled against an unsupported Undead unit becomes a Hit instead. Every Flag beyond the first rolled against a Supported Undead unit is counted as a Hit. Undead never retreat.

Actually, when I thought a little harder on it I was thinking that Undead shouldn't ever receive any support, and (because they creep out the living units) don't give support either. We could go either way on this one, but do we need to deal out the extra hits?
Barry Kendall wrote:
4. It also might be fitting to require that Undead fight offensively one class down from their color--for instance, Heavy Undead Infantry attack as Medium Infantry.

umm... I don' really see why, but it's worth a shot as a balance if they prove to be a bit too tough.
Barry Kendall wrote:
5. Undead Cavalry might have a similar effect on enemy Cavalry as Elephants or Camels in C&C: Ancients (horses dread Undead).

Haven't played C&C:A. Please explain.
 
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Derek H
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franchi wrote:
The science fiction version someone on BGG was joking about last year! But it's far from being ready, he'll speed it up only if an editor comes to ask for it NOW...

That was me ... and it was this year - see:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1091535#1091535
I estimated a 2010 release date for that as it seemed more, well, "science fictiony"!

But I agree - C&C:Napoleonics seems to be next.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Undead Cavalry could very simply be done much the same as Infantry.

Undead Light Cavalry can move 3 and attack, but no further.
Undead Medium Cavalry can move 2 and attack, but no further.
Undead Heavy Cavalry can move 1 and attack, but no further.

Of course this makes them very slow cavalry, but it does sort of fit the Undead theme, skeletal horses not having the muscles to gallop...
They would still get the Fearless and Frightening abilities.
 
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