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Subject: Five Point Palm Exploding World of Warcraft Review rss

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Alex

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Keep in mind 5/10 is “average”.

Components

We can see a trend with FFG “huge box” games. It seems that the company is eager to create anticipation for its games simply by announcing that “this will be a huge box game”. Since the release of Twilight Imperium III, and the shock that came with opening such a scary game, the excitement has not died down. World of Warcraft: the Boardgame is one such game and it does not disappoint in that respect. The box is massive, and much heavier than TI3; after opening it, it’s easy to see why. You get an insane amount of high-quality stuff: a big and very nice board, more than 300 cards, hundreds of tokens (small and big) and miniatures; a lot of them. To say that the game is overproduced might be true, but it would be missing the point: this game is meant to be overproduced. The “toy factor” is extremely high and you really get the feeling you’re playing a “deluxe” version of some other game. Furthermore, everything is of top-notch quality. No bended or warped minis, off-centered tokens or badly-cut cards here. Everything is perfect. That is, if it suits your tastes, and that’s not a given, since the game has a lot of that 80’s fantasy cheese that some people love so much, but for fans of elegant, simple presentations, you might want to look elsewhere…
Oh, and the game stinks, by the way. By which I mean that it literally smells bad. Blame it on the glue they used.

Theme

Let me make something clear first. I have never played online WoW, or even seen someone else play. Mainly because I don’t game on the computer and I have other things to do (like playing boardgames). So I can’t comment on how the boardgame is different or faithful to the videogame. But let me say this: as a fantasy fan and table-top RPG player, I have enjoyed the presentation and integration of the theme in WoW. It’s not perfect, but the feeling of adventuring is there. There does not seem to be “World” to speak of, and for that, I mainly blame the bland flavor texts and the fact that there is no “story” cards or encounters. But I guess there is no story either in the online game, so too bad.

Fun

The fact that you enjoy or not the game is a very personal thing. If you are into character optimization, you will at least have fun discovering all the nice combinations of powers and items; that, I can guarantee. Here’s how it goes: after choosing your character and splitting the players in two teams (the Alliance and the Horde; you guess which one are the good guys…), you draw some quests and you’re off. You can do a few different actions: move around, shop in a town, heal, train or challenge monsters. The quests consist in beating different monsters that earn you some experience and treasure, all in the goal of getting stronger; cause you need to be if you want to kill the main bad guy which wins you the game (more on that later). To fight the monsters, you need to roll blue, red and green 8-sided-dice (representing respectively: ranged attacks, melee combat and protection) that are provided by your different skills and weapons. Figuring out the best combos is a big part of the fun of the game. But not everything is so simple. There are a lot of things that get in your way: first of all, the independent monsters. Some quests also make you place monsters that will fight anybody, and that you get no reward for defeating. Other players in the enemy team can also attack you, and, while it rarely happens, it provides a nice tension. Since you only get 2 actions each turn, it means that there is a limited amount of things that you can do and making plans with your team is pretty fun. However, the game is pretty repetitive and the fun you get out of it is very dependent upon your tastes. For example, I love playing table-top and videogame RPGs, so it makes the “hack-and-slash” aspect of the game tolerable to me. But it’s not a game you want to play every single week.

Strategy

Well, there are a lot of dice rolls in this game, so you shouldn’t expect a brain buster. However, you roll so many dice that the randomness kind of evens out in the end. No, the real problem here is the card-drawing. You need to draw cards to know where your different quests are and let’s just say that drawing a quest in the opposite side of the board, surrounded by independent monsters, is a real drawback. Another problem comes with the item cards. You character is really better off drawing swords and armor rather than potions or equipment he can’t use. But, you know, you shouldn’t really play a fantasy game like World of Warcraft for the strategy, so all of that doesn’t matter that much. One thing that does, though, is the end-game. It is probably a matter of opinion, but I really dislike the “race to the finish” aspect to the game where each team needs to beat the final boss first to win. The most fun you’ll have in the game is customizing your character and making plans with your team, but that fun can be cut short by the other team suddenly beating the boss and ending the game there. I found a way around this by coming up with a “Victory Points variant” that you can find here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/106017

Overall

You can see I’m exactly the kind of gamer “targeted” by World of Warcraft: the Boardgame (even though I never played the online game), but still, I find it far from perfect. You really need some patience to enjoy the slow pacing and repetitive nature of this game, but if you take it as it is, it can make for a very nice and relaxing evening between friends. The team play, character optimization and RPG-ish elements make for a different game, one that should please RPG or videogame players. One thing, though; my appreciation of the game may be tainted by the fact that I played only a few games with the original rules and dozens with my “VP variant” and I feel that my rating would probably be significantly lower if it was about the original “race to kill the boss” rules… Oh yeah, and one last thing: always, always, play with the “Deadly PvP” rules…
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Crazy Fella
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I enjoyed your review but I have to admit I'm puzzled that you didn't find much with the strategy aspect of the game.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Whereas you didn't like the "race to the finish" aspect because you wanted to level your character to level 5, I found the race aspect really good. The Overlord has the power to do some serious damage to the world. The factions, while not good or bad, are competing to bring the most honor to their side by defeating the overlord.

To this end I found that there was a lot of strategy involved, most of which you can plot during your opponents turn. Do you stick together with your team-mate(s) or do you take quests on solo, taking a higher risk but gaining a higher reward? Do I rest this turn to get my energy and health back or do I challenge this monster, knowing that the XP reward will replenish my health? Do I move and take a town action or do I take a training action and move to my next fight?

You have a limited time to get your characters to the point where they can fight the Overlord, and so you're racing against time and against a faction who is trying to do the same thing. If you're playing a 2 player game this isn't as fun because you have to do all that planning in your head but when you play with 4 players you can plot out your actions with your partner.

Add all that together and I think you have a game with a LOT of strategy!


Just a thought. I really did enjoy your review, and to be honest I find that VP scenario intriguing and I might have to try it. And I completely agree with your advice on the Deadly PvP variant!
 
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Alex

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Well the "race" thing is very much a matter of opinion; it is not poorly designed, it is simply that everyone I played the game with (and myself) did not like it.

Quote:
Do you stick together with your team-mate(s) or do you take quests on solo, taking a higher risk but gaining a higher reward? Do I rest this turn to get my energy and health back or do I challenge this monster, knowing that the XP reward will replenish my health? Do I move and take a town action or do I take a training action and move to my next fight?


You still have exactly the same decisions to make while playing in the VP variant. It is still a race, in fact, but a race to gain the most VP, and it may not end before turn 30. That means you won't have your game cut short. I know many people think this game is already too long, but I think that it is even more frustratring when you are trying to achieve something and your opponent simply ends the game.

Another thing I don't like about final bosses: they are sometimes unbalanced in favor of a faction in certain circumstances. Like if there is a Blue Wraith and a Blue Wildkin in Caer Darrow and Nefarian is in the white region. The Alliance can easily teleport there, while the Horde has to go through 2 tough blue monsters (and maybe rest), before fighting him.

Another thing: I agree that scrapping the overlords altogether would be sad; in the VP variant, they simply give up lots of points (often enough to give a win). But since they give up no XP or treasure, there is usually a interesting decision to make about fighting them or not.
 
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Alex

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By the way, I intend to update the VP variant for the expansion (also due to a lot of "playtesting") very soon...
 
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Crazy Fella
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I don't have the expansion (yet) but I am looking forward to it.
 
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Jarrod Yeo
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hi jello,

i also enjoyed your review. i think it more or less sums up the game. i also liked how you mentioned you don't play the PC version of WoW as i felt this was a rather important fact - i'm a WoW PC game veteran and much of my initial strategies to develop my characters was based on my knowledge of game mechanics in the PC version.

i play a warrior on the PC game - which allows for greater specialisation using the talent trees provided upon reaching lvl 10. my role in that game was largely a damage absorber (aka "tank") and that was how i tend to spec my WoW board game character as well. i can't figure out how to play the paladin yet similarly coz i've not ever played one on the PC version. basically, i think knowledge from the PC game enhances one's WoW boardgame experience. you should try it! get an account now!


hi too omega,

i agree with you on the strategy aspects that you mentioned. i played a couple of odd-number-of-players games and found that usually the faction controlled by more individuals did better. there is definitely strategy in this game beyond that of dice rolling and hoping for the best.

 
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Jarrod Yeo
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jellospike wrote:


There does not seem to be “World” to speak of, and for that, I mainly blame the bland flavor texts and the fact that there is no “story” cards or encounters. But I guess there is no story either in the online game, so too bad.


this is one point that i must strongly disagree with though. Blizzard's stranglehold on the RTS and now MMORPG genres was started largely because of the world based on the initial warcraft 1. in starwars like fashion, it created a world with enough depth and enough lore for expansion and extrapolation.

admittedly, the boardgame does only skim the surface of the world and its lore (the board itself is only the northern portion of the eastern continent - which takes about 10 mins max in flight to travel from 1 end to the other) the boardgame also doesnt provide much background on the factions' relationships with one another, making pvp purely pvp. the overlords too all have some sort of story behind their existence which is not detailed.

however, the quests do make an attempt to link the boardgame to the world it's based on. a quest that comes to mind is one that spawns an ogre, the quest text being "me smash, you die." it tickled me a little how such a simple quest line (which probably didnt mean anything to many) managed to sum up all we needed to know abt the quest - quest mob, general location and why you are doing it.
 
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Alex

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This is very interesting.

We have two completely opposite backgrounds (you being a WoW expert, and me a WoW ignorant, though I did watch a friend play through Warcraft 2 and 3) and that may prove that thematically, this game may succeed and fail at the same time, depending on the crowd. I just wish they would have made this more involving for people that don't play the online game.

Oh, and I have far too much boardgaming opportunities these days to start playing a videogame with no end!
 
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Damien Browne
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I have never played the online version of the game (and never will) but this game has endless possibilities for me.

I liked your review, though I do wonder that you gave components a 10 even though "they really stink". You must like the stink!

The difference for me, I guess, is that I like - REALLY like - the race aspect of the game. Do as much as you can, in the time that you have, but if you do more than you need, you can still lose.

Also, comments about your "random" points -
The cards aren't purely random.
You get to choose them.
If you play it enough you will indeed learn that red cards spawn in specific locations, and yellows in a different location.
You will even learn which cards are left in your deck, and the chance that you can drop an independant on an enemy faction player.

I'm not there yet, but it's conceivable.

Also, the dice aren't even purely random anymore, because a hit is a hit, but skills allow you to modify misses into hits, re-roll misses and increase dice rolls' values.

There is much more to this game than 'random'. There are choices - and some of them not so simple or ordinairy. There is also planning - you know how many turns remain in game - you need to know how many will be required to find/travel to the boss, and what training you'll need at that time. The rest must be maximised as efficiently as possible.
 
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MrSkeletor wrote:
bluebehir wrote:
Also, the dice aren't even purely random anymore, because a hit is a hit, but skills allow you to modify misses into hits, re-roll misses and increase dice rolls' values.

I really agree with this. Of all the 'dice heavy' games out there this is the 'least random' one I can think of. The amount of manipulation you can do with the dice is incredible. Anyone who thinks the dice rolling in this game is too random should stay away from dice games all together.

I feel a little example might help those people who are having a hard time visualizing the battle sequence. In the last game we played (which included the World of Warcraft: The Boardgame – Shadow of War expansion), I chose the role of a Paladin. This class is a stereotypical fighter with some healing spells to boot. My son was my teammate, and we were playing very aggressively, which is to say that I hadn't developed my spellcasting talents in favor of making my attacks more effective. Who needs to heal if your opposition is already dead?

When we attacked the Overlord character, my skills, talents, and equipped items had been selected to do two things: generate as much attrition as possible, and to allow for many reroll opportunities. I'll take a moment to describe those terms.

You will roll all of your dice in an attempt to meet or exceed your opponent's "Threat" level, which is a threshhold value usually found on a reference sheet.

"Attrition" in combat represents successful strikes against your opponent. The application of these hits is delayed until the resolution phase of combat. There are hit counters which are placed in a special Attrition area on the board during combat. The amount of Attrition you get to apply is determined by your items, skills, and talents: you usually do not have to roll any dice, although you may earn additional attrition by rolling your other dice well. Attrition is, in essense, a number of "auto hits."

Your red dice represent your opportunities to hit the opponent with melee strikes -- you're up close, and personal. Successful rolls with the red dice allow you to place hit counters in a "Defense" area on the board. Think of these hits as successful parries: they stop an incoming attack, and will later be resolved as damage against your opponent.

Your green dice represent your defensive skills and items, such as armor. A successful roll of a green die allows you to place an armor counter in the "Defense" area: it will block an incoming attack, but it will not be resolved into damage.

Finally, there is a "Damage" area on the board. Your blue dice represent ranged attacks, both conventional and magical. Successful rolls of blue dice allow you to place hit counters directly in the "Damage" area of the board. If you do enough Damage to exceed your opponent's "Health" value (hit points), then you kill him outright! Imagine shooting at a monster who is charging at you, and dropping it so that its body skids to a halt at your feet.

Side note: if you don't imagine such things when playing a game like World of Warcraft, then stop reading now. Don't buy this game. Translating numbers and words into imagined actions is the fun.

You roll all of your dice, and adjust their values as may be allowed by your skills and equipment. Then follows a reroll step, during which you may be allowed to reroll some of your misses. Again, this ability is affected by your skills, talents, and items. After your reroll step is complete you determine the outcome.

If your blue hits inflict enough damage on their own, then your opponent is killed automatically. This is an optimal result! If he survives the ranged attacks then he has an opportunity to attack your group. Your opponent's attack strength is the listed attack value on the reference sheet, less the number of hit and armor counters in the Defense area on the board. Any attacks of his that get through have to be absorbed by your group (remove health counters from your character mats). Next, the hits from your attrition and your defense are resolved (moved into the damage space on the board). When the number of counters in the damage space is equal to, or exceeds your opponent's health value, he dies. Make sense?

Now let's return to my example: with my items, talents, and skill selection, I was rolling all seven red dice, and two green ones. This moment is where strategy and planning overrides -- or at the very least, mitigates -- randomness. I had optimized my Paladin's ability to generate Attrition (auto hits, whose effects are delayed until the resolution phase), and to provide as many rerolls as possible. Here's what I had:

- I had equipped a level 2 trinket, found as treasure, called a "Painweaver Band." It allowed me to reroll a number of red dice equal to the level of my equipped mace. More importantly, this ability was separate from my reroll value -- in other words, it was its own effect!

- I had a level 3 Mace equipped.

- My level 4 talent was "Divine Intervention," which allowed me to reroll any number of red dice. Its ability was also separate from my reroll value.

- My items, skills, and talents automatically generated 4 attrition. More could be inflicted if I rolled some 8's.

- I had a reroll value of 4.

My typical combat round would look something like this: roll all of those dice. Set aside the dice which had already hit. Use "Divine Intervention" to reroll all the red misses. Set aside the dice whose new values were hits. Use my Trinket to reroll up to three remaining red dice (because I had a level 3 mace equipped). Set aside the dice whose new values were hits. Finally, use my reroll value to reroll any remaining reds and greens. Set aside the dice whose new values were hits.

In our final battle against the Overlord, all seven of my red dice hit, as did one of my greens. Those successful parries enabled us to easily absorb the damage from his attack. My damage was then combined with the damage inflicted by my son's character, and we defeated the Overlord in one combat round. Game over, the Alliance won.

Combat is a random process, and there are a lot of dice rolls. However, the process has structure, and the game mechanics allow you to maximize your opportunities for success. We find it to be a lot of fun!
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Christian Cunningham
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Hi,
Unless i read the post above wrongly, i believe you are unfortunately doing your combat incorrectly. Altho i have only played twice, as i understand it, each dice can only ever be re-rolled once, no matter what power or talent the re-roll came from.

I.E, in that "typical" turn you talked about, when you did that initial first re-roll on those reds that missed, you could not then re-roll those dice with your other re-roll abilities. To be able to do so would certainly make your character powerful indeed, especially since u managed to accrue a whole stack of re-roll possibilities.

Ultimately, each dice can only be re-rolled once, or do i have it wrong?

Im pretty sure on this, so maybe check it and see?

Have fun!
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Peacelord wrote:
Unless i read the post above wrongly, i believe you are unfortunately doing your combat incorrectly. Altho i have only played twice, as i understand it, each dice can only ever be re-rolled once, no matter what power or talent the re-roll came from.

I.E, in that "typical" turn you talked about, when you did that initial first re-roll on those reds that missed, you could not then re-roll those dice with your other re-roll abilities. To be able to do so would certainly make your character powerful indeed, especially since u managed to accrue a whole stack of re-roll possibilities.

Ultimately, each dice can only be re-rolled once, or do i have it wrong?

Im pretty sure on this, so maybe check it and see?

Side note: I think it's poor form to correct someone without being willing to do your own research.

You are correct: you are only allowed to re-roll each die once during the Reroll Step. However, the Talent and the Trinket mentioned above each contain specific verbiage which states their effects are performed separately. Here is the wording of "Divine Intervention," a level four talent which is available within the World of Warcraft: The Boardgame – Shadow of War expansion:

Quote:
Start of your Reroll step:
You may reroll any number of (red dice). This ability is separate from your Reroll value.

Admittedly, it was a crazy set of circumstances to wind up with the trinket, a heavy mace, and the talent all at the same time. Yet it is possible to create layers of rerolls.

And with this expansion, this example of what can be done with the Paladin pales in comparison to the power of the Hunter.
 
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Simon Lundström
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Now who are these five?
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Beowulf, you just gave me an urge to play this game again. It's the absolutely best tactical fighting system I've seen, and the most amazing level-and-skill system for a board game. I've never come back to the game because I crave an adventurous aspect, and in WoW board game there is only and only fighting and it's always known beforehand. There is never any surprises. But it's true that the combat system is wonderful and allows for really interesting tactics.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Just for grins, I sent the question off to FFG. Here is the response that I received:

In a question submitted to FFG, I wrote:
Here is the wording of "Divine Intervention," a level four talent which is available within the World of Warcraft: The Boardgame - Shadow of War expansion:

Quote:
Start of your Reroll step:
You may reroll any number of (red dice). This ability is separate from your Reroll value.

My question is this: does this talent allow me to reroll red dice before I use my actual reroll step? Could I use this talent to reroll five red dice, and then reroll any misses among those five dice with my "regular" reroll value?
In response, John Goodenough wrote:
A: Yes

Beowulf wrote:
The same question applies to the "Painweaver Band," which allows a player to reroll a number of red dice equal to the level of her equipped mace. More importantly, this ability is also separate from the reroll value.
John Goodenough wrote:
A: Yes

So, did the Paladin just get a little more interesting for ya?
 
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While multiple re-rolling is definitely a manipulation of dice, in my original point regarding this, I was more referring to direct manipulation.

Examples would include the hunter talent that allows you to (instead of rolling them) place two of your blue dice as one 7 and one 8.
It would also include the hunter's power that allows him to modify any two dice by an improvement of one (allowing him to change that 7 into an 8, and a 4 into a 5), and the talent that allows him to use that same power twice. (Which would allow him to change the newly changed 5 into a 6, and a separate 5 into a 6 also.)

I like that the example given above shows how you can make the most of a reroll situation, where all you need to do are get a lot of dice, and reroll misses (and reroll them again, where possible.)
However, there are other paths to take that make sure all your dice are hits.

Thus, this game is less of a random dice fest than was originally stated. And it's still a favourite of mine.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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bluebehir wrote:
While multiple re-rolling is definitely a manipulation of dice, in my original point regarding this, I was more referring to direct manipulation...Thus, this game is less of a random dice fest than was originally stated. And it's still a favourite of mine.

BLUE! It's great to see you!

And yes, you're right: I actually prefer the "set your dice" skills as opposed to the rerolls. If you're playing with the World of Warcraft: The Boardgame – Shadow of War expansion, then the game basically comes down a flip of a coin: the side that wins the toss selects Hunter as one of its classes, and wins the game.

Okay, there is some slight exaggeration in that statement. But only slightly so.
 
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Beowulf wrote:
bluebehir wrote:
While multiple re-rolling is definitely a manipulation of dice, in my original point regarding this, I was more referring to direct manipulation...Thus, this game is less of a random dice fest than was originally stated. And it's still a favourite of mine.

BLUE! It's great to see you!

And yes, you're right: I actually prefer the "set your dice" skills as opposed to the rerolls. If you're playing with the World of Warcraft: The Boardgame – Shadow of War expansion, then the game basically comes down a flip of a coin: the side that wins the toss selects Hunter as one of its classes, and wins the game.

Okay, there is some slight exaggeration in that statement. But only slightly so.


I don't agree with that. The other side could pick Warrior, and things would be quite evenly matched.

If a side does get both Warrior and Hunter, though.... shake

(That said, I actually find that classes are better balanced with Shadow of War than with the base game, especially because they fixed the "lame" classes such as Druid and Rogue).
 
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I was playing the mage just recently, and with a couple appropriately equipped items and skills, could hit a threat 6 monster/boss on a dice roll of a 2.

There are many paths to power.

Not to mention that I believe the Paladin got an awesome kick in the seat of his pants in the Burning Crusade expansion. Being able to place two red dice as 8's and then use conviction to lower the threat by 2 automatically is great. (Not to mention he can automatically change a red 5 to an 8 also, for a threat reduction of 3, if he chooses.)
 
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