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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Thinking of picking this up, have a few questions: rss

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Jim P
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Thinking about picking this one up, and have a few questions I’m hoping people might be able to help with.

First of all, a bit of background: I’d mostly be looking to play this with my wife – if it works with bigger, casual groups, that’s a bonus, but games that don’t work for the two of us tend to fall flat in terms of getting enough play-time.
I’m a fairly keen gamer and play most things (time permitting) my wife likes co-ops, and games with good theme. We play lots of Lord of the Rings the Card Game, and Lots of Pathfinder ACG, as well as a sprinkling of other things. The main deck-builder we play is Dominion. I’m a moderately big Marvel fan (don’t read individual comics, but pick up Trade Paperback collections, big fan of the films), my wife watches the films, but doesn’t bother with any of the other stuff.

First of all, how does the deck-building side of this work? Is it dominion style where your deck is going round and round, so you see the cards repeatedly, or will there be a lot of finally managing to buy that 1 good card, then never getting to use it?

How does this game compare to Marvel Dice Masters? I’m a big fan of this one, but my wife found it a bit too adversarial. She also complained about the level of complexity, although given other games she plays, I think it was more that she wasn’t interested enough to get to grips with it all, rather than it being “too complex” Is it a similar level of balance between using stuff now / using it for later benefit. Is it a similar level of integration between theme and mechanic?

I’m also intrigued by the “semi-co-op” element. I’ve played semi-coop games in the past [Lord of the Rings the Dice Game, Nazgul], and found that they fall a bit flat if played fully co-op (i.e. it becomes really easy) and that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to start “competing”) – how well is this aspect of the game worked out?

I’d also appreciate people’s thoughts on the replayability of this – I’ve heard comments about the fact that there are only 4 boss-villains. Does this game get repetitive quickly? I know there are plenty of expansions out there, but it’s a fairly significant purchase just for the base game, so I want to be confident that I’ve got a decent amount of play-time for that.
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Robert Arn
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The game works great with 2 people (and solo). I haven’t played it with more. Each player’s turn time is somewhere in-between Dominion and Pathfinder ACG - so adding more people would like just extend downtime in the game. Still it goes pretty fast, and the game does scale with player number.

The deck-building side is like Dominion. You will go through your deck several times. You start with a deck of 12 cards and draw 6 each turn. You can buy constantly rotating cards out of HQ, or defeat enemies in the city each turn.

I have never played Dice Masters, but to win the game you are going to have to defeat villians/henchmen/the mastermind. Though each turn you draw a new hand of cards, so you don’t have/get to do a lot of card management. You play what you have - however the order does matter, so a little thought is required. Still, by late game each person’s turn should only last 30-60 second after the first couple playthroughs.

The semi-co-op is optional. Each time you defeat an enemy, you put it in your own separate defeated enemy pile. If you (as a team) manage to defeat the mastermind (the big boss), then you can add up the VPs within your defeated enemy pile. The person with the highest value is the winner of the heroes. If you (as a team) lose, then nothing happens. But typically when I play 2 player games, we don’t bother.

While there are a limited number of masterminds in the base game, there are also several villains and henchmen. This makes for enough variety. In addition, you also pick a different team of heroes for every game. So there is plenty re-playability in the base game.
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Jem
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Mightyjim wrote:
First of all, how does the deck-building side of this work? Is it dominion style where your deck is going round and round, so you see the cards repeatedly, or will there be a lot of finally managing to buy that 1 good card, then never getting to use it?

Your deck will turn over fairly swiftly, though certain setups can make this happen faster. To put it in Dominion terms, only certain setups will allow you to bin the coppers (SHIELD agents / troopers) that start to clog up your deck.

Added to that, a) you're constantly playing against the game itself, so it can be something of a race against time; b) most of hte top tier cards power up off other similar cards being available at the same time, so if you're unlucky you might not get the truly killer hand you want. But when it does all line up, it feels great.

Mightyjim wrote:
How does this game compare to Marvel Dice Masters?

I honestly have no idea about Marvel Dice Masters. Sorry!

Mightyjim wrote:
I’m also intrigued by the “semi-co-op” element. I’ve played semi-coop games in the past [Lord of the Rings the Dice Game, Nazgul], and found that they fall a bit flat if played fully co-op (i.e. it becomes really easy) and that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to start “competing”) – how well is this aspect of the game worked out?


To a degree, this is very much a "your mileage may vary" moment - looking at older forum posts about difficulty, some people seem to be happy winning only 20% of the time, others want to win 90% of the time.

Difficulty can vary wildly based on the setup and with a little experience you'll start seeing how to deliberately make life difficult if you're finding stomping bad guys just too easy. There are some basic difficulty boosting optional rules written up, but simply adding in the first big expansion (Dark City) there's some really good challenge in there.

It's fair to say that in general, the difficulty increases with the number of players involved, as a pair playing co-operatively you'll be pretty successful, but can adjust the rules to make life difficult if you wish.

Mightyjim wrote:
I’d also appreciate people’s thoughts on the replayability of this – I’ve heard comments about the fact that there are only 4 boss-villains. Does this game get repetitive quickly? I know there are plenty of expansions out there, but it’s a fairly significant purchase just for the base game, so I want to be confident that I’ve got a decent amount of play-time for that.


Well I've just put five minutes into checking the cards and the numbers and I've hit an answer of there being over 1.8 million setups using the base game for two players. Clearly quite a few of these will play very similarly, but they're there. Thanks to the vagaries of shuffling you can even get rather different games from the same setup - the hero deck operates on only having five different cards available at a time, unlike Dominion's "as long as it's not sold out you can buy it" method.

There's a decent amount there, and if you find yourself getting a little bored, do make sure to buy Dark City - it'll add something like 20M setups, as well as generally pushing the difficulty up.
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Gamer D

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The deck building cycling is very similar to Dominion in terms of speed. You have 12 cards to start and a hand size of six and discard your hand and draw a new one at the end of every turn.

Dice Masters is a builder as well but that is the only similarity it has. Dice Masters is a 1 vs 1 competitive game dice game where you go head to head against your opponent, Legendary Marvel is a semi cooperative multiplayer card game where you fight a boss and his henchmen as a group and try in the process to outscore each other in prestige. Totally different games. (Personally I tried Dice Masters and I don't like it at all, I much prefer other collectible games like Hearthstone and I really don't get the hype for it, but that's just me.)

Legendary is hugely replayable, especially once you start adding the expansions. There are a ton of plots and bosses to fight and zillions of combinations of ally and adversary decks possible. Replayability is definitely not a problem.

The semi cooperative nature works but is a little contentious for some people because it kind of goes against the theme a bit of a team of people fighting a mutual enemy. The person who gets the most "victory points" at the end is the winner but it's not exactly clear why you are fighting over victory points or what they're supposed to be, other than "super street cred" or something. But mechanically it works just fine, everybody tries to help beat the bad guy but if they see that they can get a couple extra points in the process then they do that too. If you get the Villains expansion the Villains you can recruit also tend to have abilities that are even a little more aggressive to the other players, sometimes intentionally hurting another player in order to gain a bonus on an attack for instance. Basically I find that if kind of ignore the theme a bit and just play the game as a game it works great, just don't overthink why you are recruiting Hulk and Carnage to fight Professor X who is doing a Bank Heist.

The game works fine as a fully cooperative game as well, but if you play that way you may want to add +1 power to the masterminds to make them just slightly more challenging. That's really the only tweak you need.

If you play the game solo it works fine using the advanced solo character rules (which became the standard solo rules in the Villains expansion). The only hitch with solo mode is that certain characters work better when you have other players around, especially the Villains characters that hurt the other guys to help you. Otherwise it's fun and works well. If you try that and don't like it though it's also quite easy to play the game solo by playing two hands and treating it like a two player cooperative game (again, add +1 to the difficulties in that case is my suggestion.)
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Jason Locke
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Our favorite game, taking over for Dominion. After 380 plays for my wife and I, I'd say it has some replayability! :-) Be warned: you may want every expansion once you start playing! A billion combos. Have played semi- and full co-op, but prefer full co-op at this point. Dice Masters is just a different game, and I would rather play Legendary.
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Sherri Fillingham
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Another vote for Legendary. I had the suckiest of two weeks at work and just burrowed this weekend and did little more than do laundry (sigh) and play Legendary. I play solo most of the time, but have played both two and three player games.

I rather dislike the end of game "competitive" mechanic in a multi-player game. There are times when it is more beneficial to take out a lower value villain in order to better manage the abilities of the team, and that works against that competitive end game situation. Basically, we ignore it for the most part except for grins and giggles when it has been a bit of a slaughter-house.

The replayability is outstanding! (See the "played the whole weekend" comment above.) I have added all the expansions (except for the Villains materials), but the base set was very satisfying before I took the plunge of the expansions.

I think you would enjoy it. I'm a Dominion lover as well and find this a bit more accessible for newer players.

YMMV, but I thought I'd add my support.
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Mike Runnestrand
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I really enjoy this game, but I think as a 2-player game, it's just too easy. Granted, there are difficult scenarios you can construct, but they are limiting to your gaming experience if you only ever play with 5 different set-ups. You and your wife will win 90% of the games you play if you choose a "random" setup.

I am in the minority I think, but I like Legendary best as a 5-player game. It's challenging and aggravating and fun all at the same time. It also ends before you're ready for it to, a hallmark of good game design. The only complaint here is that 5 players is the maximum (though the new expansion promises to bring that up to 6). So it's not good for a large group.
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Just like Mightyjim, I am considering picking up Legendary to play with my significant other.

One of the hesitations I had about this game is that I have heard rumors that there was going to be a reprint of this game with more art verity. Is this rumor true (or at least plausible)?
 
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Sherri Fillingham
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I don't know if it is true or not, but I have to be honest, the single-image nature of the basic set is actually a plus as far as I am concerned. Part of the slight hassle of this game is the clean up, and I find it much easier to put away the cards from the base set because the art is so obviously that given character.

The newer cards, with multiple images per character, take much longer to put away, particularly if it is a character I'm not overly familiar with. I'm, at best, only casually familiar with the Marvel Universe, so some of the less visible characters (Blade, Bishop, Domino, etc.) don't "imprint" as easily.

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David A
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I've played this game many time in solo, 3- and 4-player set-ups and, to be honest, have the highest win record with 4-players and the worst record as a solo act. Either way, the replayability way up there. Little stagnation with one exception: you'll get tired of seeing the same henchmen all the time.

As for the artwork, I'm also of the camp that isn't wrapped around the axle about it. In many ways, as was recently stated, it actually makes the game easier to do that quick visual snapshot when looking at the board or your hand. It's also quicker for clean-up after the game. I think the mechanics of the game are more important to focus on than the art. The art is great and definitely adds to the game though. I can understand why some people want more variety in the look of the cards, it's just not that big a deal for me is all.

Hope you guys pick it up and enjoy it as much as we all do!!!!
 
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I have only played one game, but compared to other similar games, I found the cards hard to read at a glance. With unique illustrations, I can (roughly) remember what each card does and understand what the value of my hand is without having to read every card. With Legendary, I would often draw a hand and think that I got a certain key card. I would go through my hand, forming a strategy around it until I got to the key card which turns out radically different from what I expected.

I assume that after enough plays, the combination of a boarder + illustration will make the cards identifiable.

But, getting back to my original question, I assume that you guys have not heard anything about new art in a reprint.
 
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Rudy Castaneda
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ThinkingThatsAll wrote:
One of the hesitations I had about this game is that I have heard rumors that there was going to be a reprint of this game with more art verity. Is this rumor true (or at least plausible)?


Based on the current rumors & some facts. This game is in its fourth printing, and I don't think they'll be coming out with a "2nd edition" with distinct art for the base set.

They've been releasing cards with alternate art in the trading card Marvel 3D line - and it's been said they'll be release those cards "in the future" as a set, but it doesn't cover all the heroes in the base set.

+1 to loving this game.

-rudy
 
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