Trey Stone
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From my Facebook...

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I've made a bit of a change on my position on the battle flag. Several of my friends, most notably Michele Tomarelli and Real Rich have made some excelent points on the Confederate battle flag. They both acknowedge the historical place of the flag and would never seek to have it ended or disparage private display. BUT...a state capitol, that is a place of all people? I have to admit...they are right. And further, conservative holdouts gain nothing and just lose political juice that is too expensive holding out on that issue.

Keep the flag in places it belongs, including museums, libraries, certain holidays, private displays and of course, stores and The Dukes of Hazzard. But state capitols? It is time.


We should never run from history. We should always face it honestly. And we should never assign negative aspersions to people we don't know. You can be a proud Southerner and raise that flag for honorable reasons.

But a state capitol? Upon further reflection and examining the arguments...private collections, museums, libraries, and The Dukes of Hazzard are the place.

Amazon and Warners are still being trendy idiots.
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Trey Stone
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I will even add this. jmillum, whom I almost never agree, had a very strong argument that I had no real good response. I tried, because I am me. But it nonetheless got me to thinking.

When I saw federal government departments "skittle up" over the Supreme Court ruling, it bothered me greatly. And not because I'm troubled by the ruling. It is a partisan issue and there are honorable people on both sides and the argument isn't clean.

But even if it was, a federal agency has no business getting bogged down in partisan issues and losing credibility as a result. That is not why they exist.

If I am going to question that, jmilum had the right of it. The Confederate battle flag over a state capitol, despite its historical legacy...that was then, this is now.

It MUST appear non-partisan, a body that is there for all the people.

This is important.
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Ron Preisach
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Holy crap! You actually posted something reasonable. And, I actually agree with you! I am frightened, so very frightened. cry
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Trey Stone
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Embrace the madness.

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edgerunner76 wrote:
Holy crap! You actually posted something reasonable. And, I actually agree with you! I am frightened, so very frightened. cry


That's a common RSP occurrence from the conservative minority. We don't get our dignity or sense of intellectual integrity from a rainbow flag or by shouting down people we don't want to hear. We own it because of the integrity and basic truth of our convictions.

The Libtards? Not so much.

As For JerBear, Stone kind of blew it there, he wasn't actually agreeing with JerBear because JerBear doesn't have thoughts. He is issued things to repeat by his leaders and he follows orders. Like one of those rebroadcast transmitters.
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Trey Stone
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Whereever it comes from, I had to give credit, Tripp. Honor demands.
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Bimmy Jim
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DWTripp wrote:
edgerunner76 wrote:
Holy crap! You actually posted something reasonable. And, I actually agree with you! I am frightened, so very frightened. cry


That's a common RSP occurrence from the conservative minority. We don't get our dignity or sense of intellectual integrity from a rainbow flag or by shouting down people we don't want to hear. We own it because of the integrity and basic truth of our convictions.

The Libtards? Not so much.


I don't think this is a left/right thing.. humility is an underrated trait that doesn't come easily to people on either side of the political spectrum.
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Trey Stone
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BimmyJim wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
edgerunner76 wrote:
Holy crap! You actually posted something reasonable. And, I actually agree with you! I am frightened, so very frightened. cry


That's a common RSP occurrence from the conservative minority. We don't get our dignity or sense of intellectual integrity from a rainbow flag or by shouting down people we don't want to hear. We own it because of the integrity and basic truth of our convictions.

The Libtards? Not so much.


I don't think this is a left/right thing.. humility is an underrated trait that doesn't come easily to people on either side of the political spectrum.


Reason being, it is often treated as weakness and dirty pool responses often follow.

Which is partly how we get to the point of discourse we too often are at and not just in RSP.
 
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tstone wrote:


Reason being, it is often treated as weakness and dirty pool responses often follow.



Many codes - including the chivalric Knight's code - uphold humility as an extremely positive trait.

Quote:
Humility is the opposite of Pride - the absence of Truth, Love or Courage. Pride is a vice, which Pride itself inclines one to find in others, and overlook in oneself.

Pride is the surest measure of goals never attained. Humility is the virtue that must overcome pride. Humility is to act and be humble. The first test of a great soul is humility.

Within our hearts lies a bell of truth that when we do right it rings with as sweet a tone as a chime sent from the heavens. This same bell rings in disharmony, discord when we do
something against our vows and nature. An alarm to listen to, to sound the bell against vainglory and danger. We may have committed some wrong which needs setting right, to make
amends and to demonstrate our continued service to the ideals which we uphold.

A knight goes further, accepting responsibility for the flaw and spurning the comfort of pinning the difficulty on someone else, and sets it right. There is great power in the humility to say I was wrong, or I am sorry should they be spoken with sincerity. It is turning a weakness to a strength.

Humility confers a grace and gentleness that does not denude from strength, courage, loyalty or any virtue of a knight. A quiet excellence that enhances the bearer and harmonizes them in their lack of boasts.

We as knights must always remain humble. We must always remember we are here to serve a purpose much greater than ourselves. We serve the Lords and Ladies of the Pantheon of Good, and without their grace and gifts, we would not exist as we do. Though we act as vessels for Their will, we are just that, the tools that enact the will of the Holy Family. To hold ourselves in higher regard than those we serve, is a sin against that which we are taught.

A knight uses Humility as a shield against pride, and a bar to hold him on his righteous path.

Humility's temperance: To be too humble in the face of ones achievements contravenes the truth. If one has a special gift for organization of a task, then one must let others who enquire for expertise in this task, who is best placed to assist them.
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Changing your mind on issues is a part of human growth. When I was a young man, I thought the confederate battle flag should be protected as part of southern history. But as I learned about all the hate groups after the Civil War, my opinion changed. As an honest person, I try to learn as much as I can and adjust my world view accordingly.
 
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tstone wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
edgerunner76 wrote:
Holy crap! You actually posted something reasonable. And, I actually agree with you! I am frightened, so very frightened. cry


That's a common RSP occurrence from the conservative minority. We don't get our dignity or sense of intellectual integrity from a rainbow flag or by shouting down people we don't want to hear. We own it because of the integrity and basic truth of our convictions.

The Libtards? Not so much.


I don't think this is a left/right thing.. humility is an underrated trait that doesn't come easily to people on either side of the political spectrum.


Reason being, it is often treated as weakness and dirty pool responses often follow.

Which is partly how we get to the point of discourse we too often are at and not just in RSP.


Except.... the only negativity I've seen in here so far about it is Tripp using it as a soapbox. Everyone else seems to be commending you for your integrity in being willing to change about something when you see it doesn't line up with something else.

You haven't changed your mind about the flag, you've changed your mind about the appropriateness of displaying something on a state building. In the view of many here, your thoughts on what the flag are and what it represents are still ugly, but nobody is harping on it, bitching about how you haven't changed your mind enough. There isn't even a "welcome over to our side." It's just a few commendations on your integrity.

People aren't all that bad if you can recognize they are people and not just words on a screen. I have to keep reminding myself of that as well.
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Trey Stone
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BimmyJim wrote:
tstone wrote:


Reason being, it is often treated as weakness and dirty pool responses often follow.



Many codes - including the chivalric Knight's code - uphold humility as an extremely positive trait.

Quote:
Humility is the opposite of Pride - the absence of Truth, Love or Courage. Pride is a vice, which Pride itself inclines one to find in others, and overlook in oneself.

Pride is the surest measure of goals never attained. Humility is the virtue that must overcome pride. Humility is to act and be humble. The first test of a great soul is humility.

Within our hearts lies a bell of truth that when we do right it rings with as sweet a tone as a chime sent from the heavens. This same bell rings in disharmony, discord when we do
something against our vows and nature. An alarm to listen to, to sound the bell against vainglory and danger. We may have committed some wrong which needs setting right, to make
amends and to demonstrate our continued service to the ideals which we uphold.

A knight goes further, accepting responsibility for the flaw and spurning the comfort of pinning the difficulty on someone else, and sets it right. There is great power in the humility to say I was wrong, or I am sorry should they be spoken with sincerity. It is turning a weakness to a strength.

Humility confers a grace and gentleness that does not denude from strength, courage, loyalty or any virtue of a knight. A quiet excellence that enhances the bearer and harmonizes them in their lack of boasts.

We as knights must always remain humble. We must always remember we are here to serve a purpose much greater than ourselves. We serve the Lords and Ladies of the Pantheon of Good, and without their grace and gifts, we would not exist as we do. Though we act as vessels for Their will, we are just that, the tools that enact the will of the Holy Family. To hold ourselves in higher regard than those we serve, is a sin against that which we are taught.

A knight uses Humility as a shield against pride, and a bar to hold him on his righteous path.

Humility's temperance: To be too humble in the face of ones achievements contravenes the truth. If one has a special gift for organization of a task, then one must let others who enquire for expertise in this task, who is best placed to assist them.



Very true. The knightly code is something I kinda try to go with in my life. The honorable fighter with an eye towards heaven.

They were imperfect, and so am I.

But the Lord is patient and just and keeps working with all His people who seek Him.
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Xuzu Horror
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GameCrossing wrote:
tstone wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
edgerunner76 wrote:
Holy crap! You actually posted something reasonable. And, I actually agree with you! I am frightened, so very frightened. cry


That's a common RSP occurrence from the conservative minority. We don't get our dignity or sense of intellectual integrity from a rainbow flag or by shouting down people we don't want to hear. We own it because of the integrity and basic truth of our convictions.

The Libtards? Not so much.


I don't think this is a left/right thing.. humility is an underrated trait that doesn't come easily to people on either side of the political spectrum.


Reason being, it is often treated as weakness and dirty pool responses often follow.

Which is partly how we get to the point of discourse we too often are at and not just in RSP.


Except.... the only negativity I've seen in here so far about it is Tripp using it as a soapbox. Everyone else seems to be commending you for your integrity in being willing to change about something when you see it doesn't line up with something else.

You haven't changed your mind about the flag, you've changed your mind about the appropriateness of displaying something on a state building. In the view of many here, your thoughts on what the flag are and what it represents are still ugly, but nobody is harping on it, bitching about how you haven't changed your mind enough. There isn't even a "welcome over to our side." It's just a few commendations on your integrity.

People aren't all that bad if you can recognize they are people and not just words on a screen. I have to keep reminding myself of that as well.


The point is that he is willing to take a moderate stance, which is the best way to handle this issue.

I do not like like the flag in general, but I think that removing it from the government building and keeping it in museums and private collections is the best course of action. I honestly do not care if they sell them or not, but the fear of losing them has done well for flag sales.
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I am with Trey on this one. Take it off of the government buildings - it isn't your state flag, so why are you flying it?

But, I also agree with Trey on the fact that retailers like Amazon and Apple are pandering to a stupid PC group because they don't understand the concept of "context". Removing a flag that a private citizen wants to buy is just posturing. Removing an App based on the civil war because the Confederacy is indicated by the Virginia Battle Flag is pandering to the "easily offended" croud.

It's all about context, people!
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tstone wrote:
It MUST appear non-partisan, a body that is there for all the people.

This is important.


Just to be clear, is this in regards only to a confederate flag ? Because I feel intimidated by the American flag as well. What about public University flags over football games ?

 
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Trey Stone
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jeremycobert wrote:
tstone wrote:
It MUST appear non-partisan, a body that is there for all the people.

This is important.


Just to be clear, is this in regards only to a confederate flag ? Because I feel intimidated by the American flag as well. What about public University flags over football games ?



The legit flag that represents your organization over a place where it is to be lawfully displayed, this is again where the "reasonable adult" standard kicks in.

If you tried making a fuss about THAT, I would dismiss you as a nutter.

Everyone is going to be offended by something, as we have seen in our day and age. As we also have seen in our day and age, you can't fall over yourself trying to soothe the butthurt of everyone claiming offense.

So..."reasonable adult".
 
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