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Subject: Is this tile missing a price? rss

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Nick Shaw
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I've heard mention before that the tile in the bottom-left of this image should have a button-price, but doesn't (but I can't find any reference on the forums that mentions it):



Does it intentionally not have a price? Seems like a standard enough tile, so wondered why there's no price? Seems like a complete bargain (with only a 3 time-cost AND gains you a button for income!)...
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Yes, intended.
Tiles are far from being balanced in theory. This is why you have to position yourself to benefit from these tiles and deny them to your opponent.
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Jimmy Okolica
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I've never heard that it's supposed to have a price. Generally it's a bargain... but it needs to fit and you need to have 3 time to spend. Depending on the point in the game, it may or may not work for you. There've definitely been times where I skipped it because it would have put me ahead of my girlfriend instead of getting to go an extra time.
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Jimmy Okolica
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tublefou wrote:

Tiles are far from being balanced in theory.

I disagree. There are times when some tiles are better than others, but that's situational. I don't think there are any tiles that are universally better than other tiles.

Early game, what's better? Cheap and big (few or no buttons) or small, expensive and lots of buttons? is it worth it to hopscotch? Where does that leave your opponent? What about taking a time-expensive tile that forces your opponent to hopscotch?

Late game, what's better? I don't think there are any general rules. It completely depends on where you and your opponent are on income, board fill, time left, etc.
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Martin G
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I generally agree with Jimmy, but that free tile is a beast, especially early. There are very few circumstances in which I'd pass it up.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Well, then let's just say that some are (much) less situational than others.
The tile the OP is refering to is just insane.
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Nick Shaw
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Ok, thanks all. I guess it was intentional; I just figured it would have had some kind of marking to indicate zero cost (like a button icon and "0" by it, instead of nothing at all).
 
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Scott Douglass
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All tiles are not created equal, and while any tile can be situationally the correct move, there are some tiles that you should plan ahead to try and get in pretty much every game.

The early game revolves around setting yourself up to get your share of the strong early game tiles: the tiles that are point efficient, give you button income, and are button cheap. Liquidity is the main constraint you operate under in the early game, and those types of tiles are the best for getting you started efficiently. This tile is the best from that perspective, and I usually try to set myself up to get it 3+ moves before we get to it. I don't always get it, but I always try to get something juicy in compensation if I have to give it up.
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Jimmy Okolica
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sdougla2 wrote:
All tiles are not created equal, and while any tile can be situationally the correct move, there are some tiles that you should plan ahead to try and get in pretty much every game.

The early game revolves around setting yourself up to get your share of the strong early game tiles: the tiles that are point efficient, give you button income, and are button cheap. Liquidity is the main constraint you operate under in the early game, and those types of tiles are the best for getting you started efficiently.

respectfully disagree. This is a 2-player game so nothing is good in a vacuum. If you have insufficient money and I take the $3/6-time tile so you have to leapfrog me, that's a good deal. If I take the $3/6-time tile and it leaves you with the opportunity to cover grab a whole bunch of cheap dollar/cheap time tiles, that's not such a good deal.

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I usually try to set myself up to get it 3+ moves before we get to it. I don't always get it, but I always try to get something juicy in compensation if I have to give it up.

Sure, all else being equal, it's a good tile. However, if it leaves you one short of a 1x1, it may not be. Or, if it sets me up to get a bunch of other things that I need late game (e.g., the cheap 4x2 "L" and the 1x2), I'll be more than happy to let you set yourself up for it.

If you want to play a euro, play a euro, but this is a game where you've got to play the other player as much as the tile order.
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Scott Douglass
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Getting an extra 1 by 1 is only 2 points. Net difference of 4 points if you let your opponent get it when you could have. It can change which tile is the best option for you, but it doesn't change it by that much. The 0/3 tile is worth a minimum of 13 points, and when it's likely to be taken it will probably be worth more like ~18, which is 6 points/time and a net gain of 15 points over passing for the same amount of time. That's better than you're going to get from most tiles, but more importantly in the early game, it also doesn't cost any buttons, so it doesn't constrain your options or force you to pass, and will actually help your liquidity problems going forward as it gives you buttons over time. There are certainly times when the correct decision is to let your opponent have it, but I find new players undervaluing it and tiles like it much more often than I find them overvaluing it, and taking it when they should be doing something else.
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Mr Rosenberg must be Christian laughlaugh
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Nick Shaw
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matmo wrote:
Mr Rosenberg must be Christian laughlaugh

I had actually thought that maybe there was some subliminal message there, the fact it's a cross, and you get it for free, and it takes 3 time (days?) to use... And a button income!... ok, metaphor lost at that point...
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Apollo Andy
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sdougla2 wrote:
Getting an extra 1 by 1 is only 2 points. Net difference of 4 points if you let your opponent get it when you could have.
Patches are often extremely helpful/essential for getting the 7x7 bonus, so it's not strictly a 4 point swing.
 
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Levi Byers
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njshaw2 wrote:
matmo wrote:
Mr Rosenberg must be Christian laughlaugh

I had actually thought that maybe there was some subliminal message there, the fact it's a cross, and you get it for free, and it takes 3 time (days?) to use... And a button income!... ok, metaphor lost at that point...

Haha, we wondered about the cross as well. We made the joke that "salvation is free." Silly.

Anyway, this still seems like a misprint to me. If it's intended to be a zero, why isn't there simply a zero next to the button symbol, as someone mentioned earlier? This seems like a design oversight (it made me eye the editors in the instruction booklet). It just inherently makes no sense that the *only* patch that costs zero suspiciously has the information missing.
 
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Nick Shaw
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Clive Staples wrote:

Anyway, this still seems like a misprint to me. If it's intended to be a zero, why isn't there simply a zero next to the button symbol, as someone mentioned earlier? This seems like a design oversight (it made me eye the editors in the instruction booklet). It just inherently makes no sense that the *only* patch that costs zero suspiciously has the information missing.

Well, as they tweaked the locations of the bonus patches on the time track in the 2nd printing but didn't change this, *and* this patch is this same value in the app implementation, I'd say it was intentionally like this.
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