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Subject: A very modest Kickstarter for Stac rss

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Dave Dyer
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Stac is a minimal abstract that you could cobble
together from spare parts, but don't: there's an equally minimal
kickstarter - (link removed) for $15 (shipping included) you get a copy of the game.

Abstract lovers - we need to support efforts like this.
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Rey Alicea
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Backed!!
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Daniel J Isom
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Thanks for posting about my project Dave. I was going to but I didn't think it was in good taste as the designer since I have an interest in it succeeding. With that being said, I just want to say I truly appreciate ANY support you all can give me with this campaign. I don't expect anyone to back it or even pledge at the $1 level, but just talking about it and sharing the link to the campaign will do wonders to get it funded. If you'd be so kind, share it with other abstract lovers, gamers, family, friends, etc. The more eyes I can get on the project, the better chance it has of funding.
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Dave Dyer
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I'm haunted by the feeling that "we must be doing something wrong" when ludicrous zombie-decbuilding games are quickly oversubscribed for hundreds of thousands of dollars, while modest little abstracts struggle to raise a few K.
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Nick Bentley
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ddyer wrote:
I'm haunted by the feeling that "we must be doing something wrong" when ludicrous zombie-decbuilding games are quickly oversubscribed for hundreds of thousands of dollars, while modest little abstracts struggle to raise a few K.


Having gone over to the dark side (and run a KS campaign that raised $280k last month), I could write a dissertation on this. Two biggest factors:

1) most people, even most games players, don't like the feel of abstract games (at least the kind that we discuss and design in this forum)

2) people aren't really buying the games on Kickstarter, they're buying the promise of an experience, and they're buying physical stuff that tickles the eye. Abstract games don't wear their intentions on their sleeves and so don't promise much of anything, and they're made of pretty mundane stuff.
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christian freeling
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milomilo122 wrote:
Abstract games don't wear their intentions on their sleeves and so don't promise much of anything, and they're made of pretty mundane stuff.

That's true and it has been true literally for ages. One would expect educated people to know that. But obviously deep strategy provided by simple means can't compete with the arbitrary abundance of the dark side. And as you implicitly demonstrate, it only matters if money and marketing are involved. Abstract lovers in most cases still benefit from gereric material.
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Game Heretics
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milomilo122 wrote:


2) people aren't really buying the games on Kickstarter, they're buying the promise of an experience...


And they rarely if ever deliver. For me, with very rare exceptions, Kickstarter has been a con-game with no one aware (or few are) that this is what they are actually offering is hollow and boring. Sure, the "stuff that tickles the eye" seems to draw, but much like far too many films out recently, the movie studios seemed to have learned the lesson of mediocrity such that it's hard to dismiss the experience as purely 'terrible' by critics and moviegoers which keeps on perpetuating a bland experience that you may or may not go to but surely there is no cause to loathe the results. I'm finding the same from almost all Kickstarter game offerings.

This doesn't mean that there are not diamonds, but to gain access to those rarified opportunities, the costs are prohibitive. I guess this is just the chance some feel they must take to turn that improbable key.
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Rey Alicea
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ddyer wrote:
I'm haunted by the feeling that "we must be doing something wrong" when ludicrous zombie-decbuilding games are quickly oversubscribed for hundreds of thousands of dollars, while modest little abstracts struggle to raise a few K.



Another way perhaps to get around this resistance is to encapsulate the abstract as Mr. Knizia and Colovini tend to do.
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Martin Grider
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I also backed. Hope you make your goals, Daneil. I do feel like showing your prototype (or whatever you have) in the video would have been valuable. One thing that definitely contributes to successful kickstarter campaigns is showing the finished product. I realize it will not be exact, but if you can make a prototype as close to the finished product as possible, it will absolutely make a difference. (I did watch the review video, and feel that some of that is the sort of thing that should have been shown in the KS video.)

reyalicea wrote:
ddyer wrote:
I'm haunted by the feeling that "we must be doing something wrong" when ludicrous zombie-decbuilding games are quickly oversubscribed for hundreds of thousands of dollars, while modest little abstracts struggle to raise a few K.


Another way perhaps to get around this resistance is to encapsulate the abstract as Mr. Knizia and Colovini tend to do.


I think this is absolutely true, but for many of us in this forum, the abstract is not /just/ the kind of game, it is also a preferred aesthetic.
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Daniel J Isom
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Thanks for the backing Martin, I truly appreciate it. I wanted the main video be more about the history of the game and how I planned on producing it. But having the game pictures probably would have helped. I thought having pictures of the game on the campaign page would be enough though.
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Steve Jones
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As the manufacturer of several abstract games that sell "OK" over the years, we are now making our first zombie game. We demo'd it at Strategicon and sold a bunch of copies in one afternoon. We have not ever sold that many copies of all of our abstracts combined in the whole 4 day con.

Perhaps if the abstract game had zombie images on the pieces...
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Rey Alicea
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bluepantherllc wrote:
As the manufacturer of several abstract games that sell "OK" over the years, we are now making our first zombie game. We demo'd it at Strategicon and sold a bunch of copies in one afternoon. We have not ever sold that many copies of all of our abstracts combined in the whole 4 day con.

Perhaps if the abstract game had zombie images on the pieces...


Zombiegeddon
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Daniel J Isom
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Friday night giveaway:

If I can get 5 more $15 backers before Midnight EST, I'll raffle off an extra copy to one of the backers.
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Jeff
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Good luck!
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christian freeling
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bluepantherllc wrote:
Perhaps if the abstract game had zombie images on the pieces...

Something like this perhaps?

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ddyer wrote:
Stac is a minimal abstract that you could cobble
together from spare parts, but don't: there's an equally minimal
kickstarter -
for $15 (shipping included) you get a copy of the game.

Abstract lovers - we need to support efforts like this.


Good intentions and all, but you might want to remove the KS link. Admins see it they will nuke the whole thread, losing this discussion.

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Daniel J Isom
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It isn't his campaign so I don't think there should be a problem.
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Russ Williams
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disom wrote:
It isn't his campaign so I don't think there should be a problem.

I'm not sure if your "should" expresses how you feel it would be appropriate for things to be at BGG, or how you believe things really are at BGG.

In reality, BGG moderation is rather strict about keeping kickstarter links restricted to the given game's forum or the kickstarter forum (to avoid problems about kickstarter spam overrunning the rest of the forums - regardless of whether the game's creator or an enthusiastic fan posts it - indeed very often it's a fan's post trying to drum up more backers which gets moderated.)
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russ wrote:
disom wrote:
It isn't his campaign so I don't think there should be a problem.

I'm not sure if your "should" expresses how you feel it would be appropriate for things to be at BGG, or how you believe things really are at BGG.

In reality, BGG moderation is rather strict about keeping kickstarter links restricted to the given game's forum or the kickstarter forum (to avoid problems about kickstarter spam overrunning the rest of the forums - regardless of whether the game's creator or an enthusiastic fan posts it - indeed very often it's a fan's post trying to drum up more backers which gets moderated.)


Correct... I only speak from experience. I shared an endorsement to one just recently and the whole thread was dumped. In fact, I never shared a link, but the first comment was "Why no link?" following by another user sharing the link...

Because of that second reply, the entire thread got nuked.

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Daniel J Isom
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klkitchens wrote:
russ wrote:
disom wrote:
It isn't his campaign so I don't think there should be a problem.

I'm not sure if your "should" expresses how you feel it would be appropriate for things to be at BGG, or how you believe things really are at BGG.

In reality, BGG moderation is rather strict about keeping kickstarter links restricted to the given game's forum or the kickstarter forum (to avoid problems about kickstarter spam overrunning the rest of the forums - regardless of whether the game's creator or an enthusiastic fan posts it - indeed very often it's a fan's post trying to drum up more backers which gets moderated.)


Correct... I only speak from experience. I shared an endorsement to one just recently and the whole thread was dumped. In fact, I never shared a link, but the first comment was "Why no link?" following by another user sharing the link...

Because of that second reply, the entire thread got nuked.



Yikes, well we don't want that. Dave, could you remove the link?
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Steve Carroll
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Now the original link is gone but the quoted one is still up.
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Texas gamer wrote:
Now the original link is gone but the quoted one is still up.


Oops! Fixed
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Carl Johan Ragnarsson
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disom wrote:
Thanks for the backing Martin, I truly appreciate it. I wanted the main video be more about the history of the game and how I planned on producing it. But having the game pictures probably would have helped. I thought having pictures of the game on the campaign page would be enough though.


From a marketing perspective, the main video should tell prospective backers something interesting and exciting about the project. While an abstract game is always a hard sell, there are definitely some things you could improve on in the video, including showing more of the game itself to make it more visual.
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Daniel J Isom
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minismurf wrote:
disom wrote:
Thanks for the backing Martin, I truly appreciate it. I wanted the main video be more about the history of the game and how I planned on producing it. But having the game pictures probably would have helped. I thought having pictures of the game on the campaign page would be enough though.


From a marketing perspective, the main video should tell prospective backers something interesting and exciting about the project. While an abstract game is always a hard sell, there are definitely some things you could improve on in the video, including showing more of the game itself to make it more visual.


I totally agree Carl. Today in a Facebook group about Kickstarter board game projects, I got a lot of great feedback of how to make the video better. I plan on reshooting it tomorrow with some changes including showing the game itself.

Edit: In other news, I added a new pledge level where you can get 1 of only 10 copies of a all wood, hand made version of the game. And I lowered the top pledge level to $250.
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Daniel J Isom
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I've edited the beginning of the video, changed the project image, and added a gameplay video that was recorded on Boardspace.net. A digital version of the game should be available soon so you can play against a bot or a live player. Please thank Dave from the original post for doing that. Better yet, go play games on his site if you don't already.
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