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Subject: Who is burning Black churches? rss

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J
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Quote:
Mount Zion African Methodist Episcopal Church, a prominent African-American church in Greeleyville, S.C., caught fire late Tuesday. It is the eighth black church in the Southern U.S. to burn in 10 days


What kind of evil fulfillment do people get out of burning a church?
 
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Josh
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A lot of these are normal accidents, but the fear that the parishes feel while the cause is still unknown is still very real. It's flat proof that racism's effects are still solidly felt in the US.

In hos terroristic efforts Dylan Roof was more successful than Al-Queda or ISIS have ever been, sewing real fear in the hearts of American communities.
 
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Chad
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Lightning in at least 2 of the cases - with natural causes likely in the vast majority of the others.

A bit of context - per the National Fire Protection Association an average 31 fires happen at churches throughout the nation each weekly (based on 2007 - 2011 data) with Arson happening in 16% of them.

So going by statistics, likely 1 of the fires was Arson.

But, hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good umbrage....

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jeremy cobert
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jmilum wrote:
What kind of evil fulfillment do people get out of burning a church?


I thought a church was a just a tax free building with a bunch of crazy people inside ? How is it any different then any other building.

your nutty hypocrisy seems to have really ramped up.
 
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J
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Utrecht wrote:
Lightning in at least 2 of the cases - with natural causes likely in the vast majority of the others.

A bit of context - per the National Fire Protection Association an average 31 fires happen at churches throughout the nation each weekly (based on 2007 - 2011 data) with Arson happening in 16% of them.

So going by statistics, likely 1 of the fires was Arson.

But, hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good umbrage....


What are the stats for only Black Churches? I'm assuming there are quite a bit fewer Black Churches than white due to population stats.
 
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J
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bjlillo wrote:
Probably this guy or Al Sharpton.

Quote:
A Colorado Springs man was arrested after police believe he left racist messages outside a church.

Vincent Broughton, 44, who is black, is facing charges for committed a bias-motivated crime and disorderly conduct.



Did he burn down a Church? If not then that's not relevant to this thread.
 
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Chad
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jmilum wrote:
Utrecht wrote:
Lightning in at least 2 of the cases - with natural causes likely in the vast majority of the others.

A bit of context - per the National Fire Protection Association an average 31 fires happen at churches throughout the nation each weekly (based on 2007 - 2011 data) with Arson happening in 16% of them.

So going by statistics, likely 1 of the fires was Arson.

But, hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good umbrage....


What are the stats for only Black Churches? I'm assuming there are quite a bit fewer Black Churches than white due to population stats.


So rather than admitting you may be reaching here, you double down on stupidity.....

OK,

So, lets do a little math. 10 Black Churches have burned over the last 10 days. Compared to a national average of 44.3 (rounded to 44) Churches nationwide.

that means that 10/44 or 22.7 (23%) of the Churches were African American (compared to 13.2% of the population). Which does fall slightly out of the norm (it should be 5.94) - but this does not account for as you asked the % of "Black Churches" vs "Non Black Churches" I am unable to find this. However, African Americans tend to be significantly more religeous than "average" Americans.

87% of African Americans consider themselves part of a religion vs. 56% of Americans. (or a 1.55 Ration) So lets take the 22.7% and multiply it by .64 (1/1.55) = 14.6% - which compared to an African American Population of 13.5%... makes this seem to again not be an anomaly - but again, lets not let facts get in the way.


Shit, my math was wrong - it was 8 Black Churches over the last 10 days (not 10). - or 18.2%. then accounting for the "religiosity" factor of 1.55

18.2/1.55 = 11.7% - which means your title should be "why are so FEW black churches burning" - but I realize that is much less sensationalist.
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J
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Utrecht wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Utrecht wrote:
Lightning in at least 2 of the cases - with natural causes likely in the vast majority of the others.

A bit of context - per the National Fire Protection Association an average 31 fires happen at churches throughout the nation each weekly (based on 2007 - 2011 data) with Arson happening in 16% of them.

So going by statistics, likely 1 of the fires was Arson.

But, hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good umbrage....


What are the stats for only Black Churches? I'm assuming there are quite a bit fewer Black Churches than white due to population stats.


So rather than admitting you may be reaching here, you double down on stupidity.....

OK,

So, lets do a little math. 10 Black Churches have burned over the last 10 days. Compared to a national average of 44.3 (rounded to 44) Churches nationwide.

that means that 10/44 or 22.7 (23%) of the Churches were African American (compared to 13.2% of the population). Which does fall slightly out of the norm (it should be 5.94) - but this does not account for as you asked the % of "Black Churches" vs "Non Black Churches" I am unable to find this. However, African Americans tend to be significantly more religeous than "average" Americans.

87% of African Americans consider themselves part of a religion vs. 56% of Americans. (or a 1.55 Ration) So lets take the 22.7% and multiply it by .64 (1/1.55) = 14.6% - which compared to an African American Population of 13.5%... makes this seem to again not be an anomaly - but again, lets not let facts get in the way.


I was asking for info, you were the one that offered stats, so I asked for more. That's not doubling down, it's wanting to learn more.

As far as I've read, arson is suspected in at least three of the cases, ruled out in another three, and no idea on the rest.

I think you did make one rather alarmingly wrong assumption though: Blacks can go to Churches other than Black ones (and whites could also go to Black Churches). So putting ALL the Blacks in the Black Church Bucket would not be correct.
 
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Those are also Churches mainly in the South, using nationwide stats would not be correct either.
 
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Chad
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jmilum wrote:

I was asking for info, you were the one that offered stats, so I asked for more. That's not doubling down, it's wanting to learn more.

As far as I've read, arson is suspected in at least three of the cases, ruled out in another three, and no idea on the rest.

I think you did make one rather alarmingly wrong assumption though: Blacks can go to Churches other than Black ones (and whites could also go to Black Churches). So putting ALL the Blacks in the Black Church Bucket would not be correct.


Bullshit - you make an uninformed statement get called on it and the fall back on "I was just asking for more information" -

Further "suspected" in those three cases means that it cant be ruled out at this time - but again, given history and statistics only 16% of the fires will be arson.

Further, you are making a rather alarming wrong assumption hat ONLY black people go to "black" churches.

Again, admit that you might be overstating your case or get some real data to back you race baiting.
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Utrecht wrote:
jmilum wrote:

I was asking for info, you were the one that offered stats, so I asked for more. That's not doubling down, it's wanting to learn more.

As far as I've read, arson is suspected in at least three of the cases, ruled out in another three, and no idea on the rest.

I think you did make one rather alarmingly wrong assumption though: Blacks can go to Churches other than Black ones (and whites could also go to Black Churches). So putting ALL the Blacks in the Black Church Bucket would not be correct.


Bullshit - you make an uninformed statement get called on it and the fall back on "I was just asking for more information" -

Further "suspected" in those three cases means that it cant be ruled out at this time - but again, given history and statistics only 16% of the fires will be arson.

Further, you are making a rather alarming wrong assumption hat ONLY black people go to "black" churches.

Again, admit that you might be overstating your case or get some real data to back you race baiting.

I haven't made a case, I asked who was burning down churches.

I also said above:
jmilum wrote:
I think you did make one rather alarmingly wrong assumption though: Blacks can go to Churches other than Black ones (and whites could also go to Black Churches). So putting ALL the Blacks in the Black Church Bucket would not be correct.

Did you miss that? Or are you going to join tstone in lying about what I actually have said...

What uninformed statement have I been called on?
 
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So what we have is black churches and white churches in equal parts being burnt down by acts of God.

Well, there is the answer right there. God is punishing Christians for opposing the Marriage Equality verdict.
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jmilum wrote:
I haven't made a case, I asked who was burning down churches.


Seriously? I was just asking the question? That is what you are going with? Then what was the point of asking the question? You are to lazy to actually look it up?

Or rather, you were looking to throw the virtual hand grenade in the room. Seriously cowboy up and stand behind what you did rather than lawyer up. this intellectual dishonesty does you no credit.


jmilum wrote:

Did you miss that? Or are you going to join tstone in lying about what I actually have said...
you are correct, I missed it

Quote:
What uninformed statement have I been called on?


Your insinuation that racists are burning down Black Churches. There is simply no facts at this time to back up that statement. (and you can stop with the "but i never said that" BS - no one was confused by your approach)
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Utrecht wrote:
jmilum wrote:
I haven't made a case, I asked who was burning down churches.


Seriously? I was just asking the question? That is what you are going with? Then what was the point of asking the question? You are to lazy to actually look it up?

Or rather, you were looking to throw the virtual hand grenade in the room. Seriously cowboy up and stand behind what you did rather than lawyer up. this intellectual dishonesty does you no credit.


jmilum wrote:

Did you miss that? Or are you going to join tstone in lying about what I actually have said...
you are correct, I missed it

Quote:
What uninformed statement have I been called on?


Your insinuation that racists are burning down Black Churches. There is simply no facts at this time to back up that statement. (and you can stop with the "but i never said that" BS - no one was confused by your approach)

You can stop with trying to put words in my mouth. I asked who was burning down black churches and what kind of fulfillment a person would get out if that. I also posted a blurb about the most recent one. I knew arson was suspected in several of them but not all. I also never mentioned anything about racists, although several other people in here did.

You are so full of shit, that you even assumed I was saying only black peoples would go to black churches, even though I stated the opposite.

And Liberals are the ones accused of being obsessed with race? This thread shows the opposite!
 
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Chad
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Quote:
You can stop with trying to put words in my mouth. I asked who was burning down black churches and what kind of fulfillment a person would get out if that. I also posted a blurb about the most recent one. I knew arson was suspected in several of them but not all. I also never mentioned anything about racists, although several other people in here did.


Not sure, why I am trying, but here is another attempt at reaching you.

Then please actually say something that contributes to your own thread - you did nothing other than post an inflammatory headline, post a easily countered article and asked a completely banal question (were you expecting an answer other than people who burn churches are shit heads?)

You did not state that you knew arson was suspected (and again, the correct term you are looking for is "not ruled out")

So, if you weren't trying to imply that it was racists were burning down churches - why bring up the race of the predominant members of the church goers? That pretty strongly implies the churches were targeted because of their race - ergo by racists. I am not sure why this is a larger leap.


Quote:
You are so full of shit, that you even assumed I was saying only black peoples would go to black churches, even though I stated the opposite.


I admitted that I missed your statement - not sure what more you are looking for. But, it did feel like you were looking to poke holes in the data rather than actually look something up yourself.

So, in the spirit of closing the gap. Had you said something like, "huh, I did not know those facts, and first blush appears that there may actually not be anything to the story - but I wonder about XYZ" I would have gotten a totally different vibe from your question. But instead, it felt like a game of 20 questions where you were looking to break down the information rather than looking for your own."

Now this may be your discussion style (and it does appear to historically be the case) - and if so, I don't believe that it helps communicate what you are hoping to.

Quote:
And Liberals are the ones accused of being obsessed with race? This thread shows the opposite!


Actually, it does not. The first person who brought up race was you, through the headline and the article. My point was that the church burning were likely NOT about race - and used facts to back that statement up.
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Most likely these are all insurance scams.
 
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I just assumed it was Drew.
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I know the news here seemed to say it was being investigated bearing the possibility of arson strongly in mind. Has it gone beyond that?
 
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jmilum wrote:
Quote:
Mount Zion African Methodist Episcopal Church, a prominent African-American church in Greeleyville, S.C., caught fire late Tuesday. It is the eighth black church in the Southern U.S. to burn in 10 days


What kind of evil fulfillment do people get out of burning a church?


I've never gotten it myself. Some hate crimes have a perverse logic two them, if you consider the intense, dehumanizing hate.

Wait...if one is inclined to theology/spirituality/origin of hatred...the idea that someone consumed by hate would target churches...

...evil. That's why. Pure, uncut, inhuman evil.
 
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