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Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » General

Subject: Kickstarter exclusive gamplay Addon - Atlas/Atlantis rss

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I am extremely unhappy with this trend of making essential gameplay only accessible to backers. Someone who didn't know about or couldn't afford the kickstarter should not be forever barred from playing a complete game. This is not the first game I have seen do this (Orcs Must Die Boss packs are another example), and I really hope that it does not become common.

This stuff doesn't have to be released immediately with the retail version, nor does it have to be released together in one box later (it could be spread over multiple smaller expansions in the future). And of course if they are expansions, their release depends on the retail performance of the main game, so there is a chance they might not get released later due to low demand. But having gameplay elements that are declared and advertized as being exclusive to the KS and never to be released again is unfair and counterproductive. The statement by Academy that the Atlas/Atlantis pack will never be released again is almost enough to turn me off to getting the game because it means that other people will be locked from having the full experience, not to mention it means that even if other players have played the game before, if I bring this box then I have to re-teach the extra stuff. I find no added enjoyment in denying people access to parts of the game.

Note that this is only about parts that add gameplay. The chips, the 3D buildings, and the oversize map are all nice, but they add nothing gameplay-wise. I have no issue with these being exclusive; they are nice extras for backers to spruce up their game if they want them, but they are purely aesthetic. They don't degrade the game itself by not being available. The lack of access to entire factions, game mechanics, map areas, and even the ability to play with an added player does degrade the game for anyone who buys at retail.
 
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The Game Steward
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Just so you know, the Atlantis Expansion is not a KS Exclusive. It is a single print run, but excess inventory (after fulfilling KS pledges) will be sold from their website and/or "select" brick and mortar stores who pledge during the campaign.

If it's anything like Fief: 1429, the expansion will be available for months after backers receive their pledges.

As for OMD, the only "Exclusive" gameplay items I know of are Mr. Moneybags and the Guardian. Petersen Games reserves the right to produce more Boss packs if sales warrant. I think they were disappointed with the low funding of the KS campaign though, so it's possible they don't plan on additional print runs. That doesn't make the Boss packs intentionally "exclusive" though.
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Björn
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I agree that some campaigns have a bit too much exclusive stuff, which does leave a sour taste in my mouth, but Mare Nostrum is not one of them.
Where does it say that the Atlas Expansion is exclusive? It says that you will be able to purchase it after the campaign has ended and as long as they still have some in stock --> limited availability =/= exclusive
I don't see why they would not order some more copies of this expansion if the demand is high enough.
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James
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GreenLaborMike wrote:
Just so you know, the Atlantis Expansion is not a KS Exclusive. It is a single print run, but excess inventory (after fulfilling KS pledges) will be sold from their website and/or "select" brick and mortar stores who pledge during the campaign.

If it's anything like Fief: 1429, the expansion will be available for months after backers receive their pledges.

As for OMD, the only "Exclusive" gameplay items I know of are Mr. Moneybags and the Guardian. Petersen Games reserves the right to produce more Boss packs if sales warrant. I think they were disappointed with the low funding of the KS campaign though, so it's possible they don't plan on additional print runs. That doesn't make the Boss packs intentionally "exclusive" though.


Mike, you have to stop ninja'ing me. I came to post pretty much exactly this.

OP, I agree with you on gameplay exclusives, my friend, but there are other much more prominent targets towards which you could point your wrath. When you do, I'll be there with you!
 
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Sergio Macias
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Brother Jim wrote:
OP, I agree with you on gameplay exclusives, my friend, but there are other much more prominent targets towards which you could point your wrath. When you do, I'll be there with you!


I agree. They are like a (black) plague whistle
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Mathue Faulkner
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Victor Mancha wrote:
Brother Jim wrote:
OP, I agree with you on gameplay exclusives, my friend, but there are other much more prominent targets towards which you could point your wrath. When you do, I'll be there with you!


I agree. They are like a (black) plague whistle

C'Mon, it's not that bad...
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Sergio Macias
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unic wrote:
But really - if it adds to the gameplay, then why not have it in the main box? And if it doesn't add, then why have it at all?


Maybe because it's an expansion?

 
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E J
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In update 13 they very explicitly say:

Quote:
The Atlantis Expansion may be available to non-Kickstarter pledgers for $50 in the future, if quantities remain. We will only print a few more Atlantis Expansion Boxes than needed for our Kickstarter supporters. Any remaining expansions will be offered through select brick and mortar store partners that have contacted us during this campaign. The Atlantis Expansion will not be available through general distribution.
(Emphasis added)

That seems to me like a very clear message that says that if you buy the game at retail you will never have access to the whole game, because all this stuff will not be available.
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Mathue Faulkner
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Void2258 wrote:
In update 13 they very explicitly say:

Quote:
The Atlantis Expansion may be available to non-Kickstarter pledgers for $50 in the future, if quantities remain. We will only print a few more Atlantis Expansion Boxes than needed for our Kickstarter supporters. Any remaining expansions will be offered through select brick and mortar store partners that have contacted us during this campaign. The Atlantis Expansion will not be available through general distribution.
(Emphasis added)

That seems to me like a very clear message that says that if you buy the game at retail you will never have access to the whole game, because all this stuff will not be available.

From what I understand, all of the items will be available...just not in a nice, tidy box labeled the Atlantis Expansion.
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David Tracy
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If it helps, this was the same case with the Fief expansions but you can purchase those directly through the Academy Games website.

I'm guessing you'll be able to do the same for the Atlas Expansion.

They should just make it available as an expansion I think. The game is worthy!
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James
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mfaulk80 wrote:
Void2258 wrote:
In update 13 they very explicitly say:

Quote:
The Atlantis Expansion may be available to non-Kickstarter pledgers for $50 in the future, if quantities remain. We will only print a few more Atlantis Expansion Boxes than needed for our Kickstarter supporters. Any remaining expansions will be offered through select brick and mortar store partners that have contacted us during this campaign. The Atlantis Expansion will not be available through general distribution.
(Emphasis added)

That seems to me like a very clear message that says that if you buy the game at retail you will never have access to the whole game, because all this stuff will not be available.

From what I understand, all of the items will be available...just not in a nice, tidy box labeled the Atlantis Expansion.

I see the OP's point now and this does seem to contradict much of what had been said earlier. I had understood that the ATLAS expansion (as I thought it would be named) would carry all of the expansion items -- and that the idea was to make it available for retail. I am indeed very confused now. Apologies to the OP for my hasty response for what is at minimum a confusing situation.
 
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The Game Steward
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Void2258 wrote:
In update 13 they very explicitly say:

Quote:
The Atlantis Expansion may be available to non-Kickstarter pledgers for $50 in the future, if quantities remain. We will only print a few more Atlantis Expansion Boxes than needed for our Kickstarter supporters. Any remaining expansions will be offered through select brick and mortar store partners that have contacted us during this campaign. The Atlantis Expansion will not be available through general distribution.
\

That seems to me like a very clear message that says that if you buy the game at retail you will never have access to the whole game, because all this stuff will not be available.


(Emphasis changed)

Obviously, I can't know exactly how this will play out, but I have bolded the relevant portions that I think are of more importance, and complement, rather than contradict the part about not being available at general retail.

Academy Games appears to be running the Mare Nostrum campaign like it ran the Fief: 1429 campaign in this respect. The expansion material for Fief is (or was) available through their website long after KS backers received their copies. In other words, the expansion material is still available. Technically it was only one print run, and as is common with most boardgames published in the last few years, one print run is all we are likely to see.

As the OP pointed out, and is absolutely true - games go OOP all the time. However, I think Academy Games is guilty of a little excessive marketing enthusiasm. They say they will only print "a few more" than necessary to fulfill the KS, but "few" can mean a few dozen or a few hundred. By giving the appearance of scarcity, it helps drive people to back now, for fear that it won't be available later. But if Fief:1429 is any guide, then I think they will have plenty of extra copies available for purchase from their website or from "select" stores, even if it won't be in general retail distribution.

YMMV






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Y P
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Adding to the confusion is that the expansion is called Atlas, not Atlantis, so Uwe calling it the "Atlantis Expansion" is confusing. Maybe he just meant the 6th player Atlantis faction won't be available at retail? Who knows. They've fallen down a bit in terms of keeping up with communication lately although Uwe has popped in a few times today to rectify that. There are still questions floating around like this that haven't been addressed AFAIK.
 
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Aaron Silverman
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The Atlantis 6th player components are part of the Atlas expansion.

Considering that the original game had an expansion that was released later on as well, I wouldn't think of the new base game as "incomplete." The expansion is just that, an expansion.
 
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