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Subject: Replacements and reinforcements rss

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kevin jones
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chirk
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Hi everyone.

Love this game but I'm a bit confused over where to place reinforcements/ replacements. There are three tracks (two yellow and one orange) but what goes where? I can see the German reinforcements are marked with an R but where do the rest go?

I just want to make sure I'm not disadvantaging myself as this damn game is hard enough as it is?

Thanks in advance.
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Simon Blackwell
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The RAF reinforcements (units with an "R") are bought using Victory points & are not put on the calendar yellow/orange track (see the rules as the cost gradually decreases during the game).
When an RAF or Luftwaffe unit is eliminated in combat you place that unit/counter on the first available corresponding aircraft type spot on the calendar (from the day it was shot down) as a replacement - basically the Sqn is rebuilt
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kevin jones
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Thanks Simon.
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James Young
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Tally-ho chaps,
I've been wondering about a few rules/aspects of the game and was hoping to get some feedback from fellow combatants:
When putting Green Pilots into battle, I wasn't sure if the -2 counter was placed on the chit thereby NOT counting the fighter strength of the unit itself. So, if a hurricane had a Green Pilots chit, it basically needs another Hurricane (not fatigued) to cancel out the -2. Or do you count it as -2 against its own strength? There is nothing I can find in the rules which explains this clearly but would make a big difference in combat.
Also, on the replacements chart, if a replacment box is empty and a unit is moved from Damage to Rest, does this apply to both sides? I assume it does but what with the Patrolling Sqdn Land and German Relief, I feel the need for a house rule'. What say you all? BTW, I had completely missed this rule until yesterday and am now keen to see how it will affect gameplay - DOH!
In your experience, is it more advantageous to use the Blenheims and Glads to soak up airfield damage or put them into combat with a '0 or -1' strength?
Simon, I remember about you saying you may use the actual weather outside to determine the daily weather you use in the game. This heatwave doesn't help, does it?

Thanks in advance.
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Simon Blackwell
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Hi James, not sure what you are asking regarding green pilots as it seems to be hinting the same thing.

The green pilots can really hurt you, I play it slightly differently from the standard rules as I found I was never bringing them into play for fear of a bad dice roll.
The way I play is to use the modifier to reduce the combat strength of the unit not the die roll. For example if I have a green pilot marker on a spitfire replacement its combat value is 1 (3 -2 for the green pilot marker first combat) a Hurricane would be 0. That score is added to the Luftwaffe combat strength to find the total combat value. So in effect you lose 2 combat strength points. At that point I roll the dice but do not reduce the dice result by the green modifier. If the situation is turning bad for me I'll not think twice about using green pilots for replacement Spitfire Sqdn's. I am a lot more reticent with Hurricane ones but have been known to use green pilots with these if my VP score is dropping like a stone

Regarding Blenheims treat with EXTREME caution. Definitely use to absorb airfield damage before precious Hurricanes and Spits. NEVER use for day interceptions unless you are absolutely desperate. If they get eliminated you lose 3VP's which is far too big a risk. I'd only consider them for daylight work if you accurately identify a raid of unescorted bombers over for example Filton, then it only just might be worth throwing one in if nothing else is left.
I always try to keep some undamaged ones available for night interceptions as there is nothing worse than thinking you will gain 2 end of day vp's only for a 5 strong pesky night raid to inflict 2 damage points without you having any chance to intercept. If the dice gods favour you and you intercept and cause heavy damage on one at least then only 4 can bomb you which reduces the risk of damage.
As for those brave Gladiators.......I have used them on occasions. You could also use for night raids (I wrote some house rules on these recently) as they did perform this task. Again a 3/10 Bristol sector is your best bet for a result on an accurate interception with no fighter escort and if you have nothing left. Can come in handy if you don't want the bombers to get that 2 column right shift if no fighters intercept. But I wouldn't make a habit of it as you are very unlikely to destroy a gruppe and gain any VP's. I keep them as part of my emergency reserve that tend to come into action on the last day of a campaign when my score is minus 32 and I am left with some fatigued units and the gladiators, blenheims and Defiants and 2nd/3rd line aircraft. The end result is predictably depressing.

For empty replacement I do play the same rule for damaged replacements for both RAF and Luftwaffe. I'm just a glutton for punishment although I find that you normally move the RAF fighters more frequently than the Luftwaffe units its there are 6 types of Luftwaffe so the boxes for each type are spread out a bit more

As for the current heatwave, 14 consecutive days of clear and occasional cloudy weather has been killing me trying to rotate my damaged Sqdn's back to readiness with no let up. Only yesterday when I finally destroyed 2 gruppen did I manage to stop the score on it's depressing slide in the minus realm
 
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James Young
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Thanks Simon. I knew I could rely on you for a comprehensive reply.
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Edwin David Bliss
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Fredthebass wrote:
When putting Green Pilots into battle, I wasn't sure if the -2 counter was placed on the chit thereby NOT counting the fighter strength of the unit itself. So, if a hurricane had a Green Pilots chit, it basically needs another Hurricane (not fatigued) to cancel out the -2. Or do you count it as -2 against its own strength? There is nothing I can find in the rules which explains this clearly but would make a big difference in combat.

These methods both achieve the same incorrect result... See rule 15.3. ( in particular 15.32 ). The Green Pilots marker is placed on a particular replacement Squadron ( see 15.31 ). At combat the -2 is applied to the die roll result and not the sum of the aircraft combat ratings.

Quote:
Also, on the replacements chart, if a replacement box is empty and a unit is moved from Damage to Rest, does this apply to both sides?

Yes. See the rule title at 15.1.

 
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Edwin David Bliss
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Simonsmrt wrote:
Hi James, not sure what you are asking regarding green pilots as it seems to be hinting the same thing.

Agreed.

Quote:
The green pilots can really hurt you, I play it slightly differently from the standard rules as I found I was never bringing them into play for fear of a bad dice roll.
The way I play is to use the modifier to reduce the combat strength of the unit not the die roll. For example if I have a green pilot marker on a spitfire replacement its combat value is 1 (3 -2 for the green pilot marker first combat) a Hurricane would be 0. That score is added to the Luftwaffe combat strength to find the total combat value. So in effect you lose 2 combat strength points. At that point I roll the dice but do not reduce the dice result by the green modifier.

Wow ! That lessens the Squadron's casualties somewhat. Not really how it should be done... This method of play should really only allow 1 VP per marker rather than 2 !!!

Quote:
If the situation is turning bad for me I'll not think twice about using green pilots for replacement Spitfire Sqdn's. I am a lot more reticent with Hurricane ones but have been known to use green pilots with these if my VP score is dropping like a stone

On the Spitfires is generally best, but if needs must...

Quote:
Regarding Blenheims treat with EXTREME caution. Definitely use to absorb airfield damage before precious Hurricanes and Spits. NEVER use for day interceptions unless you are absolutely desperate. If they get eliminated you lose 3 VP's which is far too big a risk. I'd only consider them for daylight work if you accurately identify a raid of unescorted bombers over for example Filton, then it only just might be worth throwing one in if nothing else is left.
I always try to keep some undamaged ones available for night interceptions as there is nothing worse than thinking you will gain 2 end of day vp's only for a 5 strong pesky night raid to inflict 2 damage points without you having any chance to intercept. If the dice gods favour you and you intercept and cause heavy damage on one at least then only 4 can bomb you which reduces the risk of damage.

Agreed.

Quote:
As for those brave Gladiators.......I have used them on occasions. You could also use for night raids (I wrote some house rules on these recently) as they did perform this task. Again a 3/10 Bristol sector is your best bet for a result on an accurate interception with no fighter escort and if you have nothing left. Can come in handy if you don't want the bombers to get that 2 column right shift if no fighters intercept. But I wouldn't make a habit of it as you are very unlikely to destroy a gruppe and gain any VP's.

Agreed.

Quote:
For empty replacement I do play the same rule for damaged replacements for both RAF and Luftwaffe.

Correct.

Quote:
As for the current heatwave, 14 consecutive days of clear and occasional cloudy weather has been killing me trying to rotate my damaged Sqdn's back to readiness with no let up. Only yesterday when I finally destroyed 2 gruppen did I manage to stop the score on it's depressing slide in the minus realm

That's life I guess...
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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DEB8 wrote:
Simonsmrt wrote:
The green pilots can really hurt you, I play it slightly differently from the standard rules as I found I was never bringing them into play for fear of a bad dice roll.
The way I play is to use the modifier to reduce the combat strength of the unit not the die roll. For example if I have a green pilot marker on a spitfire replacement its combat value is 1 (3 -2 for the green pilot marker first combat) a Hurricane would be 0. That score is added to the Luftwaffe combat strength to find the total combat value. So in effect you lose 2 combat strength points. At that point I roll the dice but do not reduce the dice result by the green modifier.

Wow ! That lessens the Squadron's casualties somewhat. Not really how it should be done... This method of play should really only allow 1 VP per marker rather than 2 !!!

Further thoughts : Taking 2 off of the Combat Strength Points total leads ( generally ), to lower British losses ( and higher German losses ) than there should be. That effect also lessens the higher the number of German Gruppen that there are in the raid ( and thus makes Green Pilot markers increasingly irrelevant ). As previously stated : "This method of play should really only allow 1 VP per marker rather than 2" and maybe that is rather generous too...

 
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Simon Blackwell
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Actually that's not always the case, it ultimately depends on the dice roll and the number and type involved in a combat. This provides for some differing interpretations of which is the biggest penalty. In some ways I could be making it harder on myself. I definitely do not agree with the 1VP proposal. Far too harsh

Example 1.
2 Hurricane Sqdns attack 2 Bf109's. Using the official rules they would roll on the 2 Gruppen Column with 4 strength. Applying the -2 combat roll modifier would give a modified dice roll of -1,0,1,2,3,4 which in turn would end up reading across 3,4,5,6,7 or 8 row

Using the same combat but with 1 Sqdn having a minus -2 applied to its combat strength would put the RAF player rolling on the 2 Gruppen Column with 2 strength. No modifier applied to the dice roll allows for 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the dice which means you end up reading along dot,3,4,5,6,7. In this case the optional version penalises more.

Example 2
2 Hurricane Sqdns attack 2 He111's. As per offical rules with 16 strength on 2 column. Applying the -2 modifier on the combat roll ends up with cross referencing incl & between 15-20.

Using the combat strength modifier as before, with 14 strength on 2 column. An unmodified combat result cross referenced between and incl 15-20. The same as above.

3 Hurricane Sqdns with 1 green pilot vs 3 109's give an identical combat range in using both options. 3 Hurricanes against 3 111's give a slight improvement using the unit modifier as oppose dice roll.

Horses for courses, either version penalises the RAF player but the circumstances can mean one version does more so than the other in one combat, but vice versa in the other.

I have only looked at a single green Sqdn in combat with other standard Sqdns as putting in more than one would be quite frankly suicidal.

I'd suggest sticking to the official rules if you prefer. Having played this game enough times I feel the "house" rule option is the more realistic one but its a matter of opinion. I also believe that when combats involve 3 or more RAF units in which only 1 is green the penalty should be correspondingly lessened as the more non green units that are participating would help lessen the chances of a whole bunch of green pilots being bounced and not helped out by more experienced pilots.
In summary, I don't think the rules need to be tweaked on this, either go with the original or try out the optional. Both work, both penalise the player!
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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Comments etc. noted.

However, I see that both of your examples only use 2 Gruppen. You are correct when low numbers of Gruppen are engaged, but what about middle to high numbers ?
This is the reason for my comment re the VP's.

On "average", across the entire Table, a -2 to the Combat Strength Points total equates to approximately a -1 row adjustment - hence my adjustment re the VP's allowed for each Green Pilots marker...

[ Surly you have to consider the impact of your rule adjustment to the table as a whole, rather than ( just ) the more often used ( ? ) left hand side ?? ]
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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Further to my previous post regarding the VP's applicable for playing Green Pilots Markers :-

Green Pilots Markers have a -2 to the Die Roll effect in the game rules. It has been suggested that this -2 could be applied to the Total Combat Value instead ( apparently without any change to the +2 VP adjustment that a Green Pilots marker gives to the player ). I have therefore reviewed the Combat Results Table to compare the effect such an adjustment would cause :-

Where only 1 Gruppen is in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -4 to the Die Roll.

Where 2 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -3 (8%) / -2 (92%) to the Die Roll.

Where 3 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -2 (19%) / -1 (81%) to the Die Roll.

Where 4 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -2 (16%) / -1 (84%) to the Die Roll.

Where 5 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -2 (8%) / -1 (79%) / -0 (13%) to the Die Roll.

Where 6 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -2 (3%) / -1 (74%) / -0 (23%) to the Die Roll.

Where 7 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -1 (59%) / -0 (41%) to the Die Roll.

Where 8 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -1 (53%) / -0 (47%) to the Die Roll.

Where 9 Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -1 (48%) / -0 (52%) to the Die Roll.

Where 10+ Gruppen are in a combat, the alteration is roughly equivalent to -1 (40%) / -0 (60%) to the Die Roll.

A -4 occurrence equals 10%
A -3 occurrence equals 0.8%
A -2 occurrence equals 13.8%
A -1 occurrence equals 51.8%
A -0 occurrence ( no change ) equals 23.6%

The average occurrence ( mean and median ) is therefore -1 ( the exact mean is -1.218 ).

Whilst the actual adjustment regarding the application of the -2 "may" be "reasonable" ; it follows that if a -2 to the Die Roll equates to +2 VP's ( as per the Rules ), then a -2 to the Total Combat Value ( which as the above shows equates to a -1 to the Die Roll ), should then equate to +1 VP.

 
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