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Onirim (second edition)» Forums » General

Subject: How is the card stock? rss

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Anthony Wilborn
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I can only find references to the card stock in the original version, any word on it in this version?

Thanks.
 
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The Fire
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Warwick
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It's a smooth non linen finish. Quality is good but they do have full bleed black so if chipping bothers you, sleeves are a must.

I like them and have not sleeved, I really don't like sleeves. yuk

They feel good in hand and if you don't abuse them you should get plenty of plays.
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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New York
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konicki wrote:
I can only find references to the card stock in the original version, any word on it in this version?

Thanks.


I either read or saw a video, but I do remember it being said that the quality of the original cards were better than the 2nd edition. I have the 2nd edition and they seem ok.

Arthur Reilly
 
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Anthony Wilborn
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Thanks for the reply. Hmm sleeveing is a tough one. On the one hand I really do hate know what a card is before I draw it, on the other hand I like the feel of cards in hand as opposed to plastic... hard call, thanks for the update.
 
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Andrew Shegda
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the cards are fine. no issues with the quality of them
 
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Chelsea
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I'm at about 25 plays and have noticed slight wear on the cards but not enough to where I can discern what card I'm about to draw based on the wear. If you were to play 50-100 times, you MAY run into this problem.
 
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Trevor Kuehl
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Madison
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I'm confused by what others are saying. I experienced wear on my cards after only three games. I immediately sleeved everything to prevent further wear. The card quality is not good.
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Michael
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After about only 3 games without sleeves and riffle shuffling gently, a very slight bend started to appear as well as scuffed edges on some of the cards.

I soon after sleeved all my cards (with thin "penny" sleeves) and strictly sleeve shuffled from then on and I highly recommend others do the same if you expect to be playing Onirim for many months to come and wish to keep the cards in great condition.

Onirim is well known for its above average amount of shuffling, and after playing close to 100 games, I can imagine the wear and tear that could have been.

With such top notch presentation and pleasant colorful card art, it was somewhat disappointing to see the card stock not be as good as it could have been, especially knowing the amount of shuffling this game demands and the problem that black bordered cards inherently have.

This is not to say the card stock is terrible, but I do wish a little more money was directed to the card stock over the overall box presentation, even as great as it is.

I will also note that after adding in an expansion or so, a sleeved Onirim deck can start to become unwieldy. Over time the deck sleeves should flatten a little, though the minor annoyance remains. I simply got used to it and found comfort in the fact that over the course of a game the deck would become easier and easier to manage as you play through it as it becomes smaller and smaller. One could also reduce the amount of shuffling by adding in the "Dreamcatchers" expansion as soon as possible.

All in all, Onirim is a wonderful game, and I feel the card stock shouldn't stop anyone interested in playing it, if that should be a hurdle.
 
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Jorge B
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While I understand why some people dislike it, I generally sleeve all my games, even if card stock is fine, because I really dislike the inevitable wear and tear that shuffling and hand-holding the cards brings.

In the case of Onirim, I'd rate card quality as (lowish) average. I guess this explains why non-sleeves people are ok with it, and why they are a must for more avid sleevers. If you are uncertain about it (that is, if you don't dislike sleeves in principle), i'm fairly certain that you'll find sleeving useful for this game, due to the large amount of shuffling and just barely adequate card quality.

One major disadvantage, of course, is that the game will only barely fit back in the box (after throwing out the very nice insert. The lid now doesn't go all the way down to completely cover the box for me.

edit: Some mention that the deck becomes very large and a bit unwieldy when sleeving. Partially true, but I just split decks to avoid any toppling issues and I'm good.
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Hana Lukešová
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I own both the first and second edition. For the first edition, since I tend to travel with it a lot and wanted easier and faster shuffling, I sleeved them. The deck is very thick now and I recommend some sleeves that don't slide, because otherwise you spend a lot of time picking up cards. But to be fair, the cards in the first edition seem thinner and more fragile. I played like 30 games before I sleeved them and there was hardly any wear visible... just some edges had like 0.01mm more white on the edge. With the second edition, since I play only at home, I shuffle by making card piles and there is no wear at all even after 20 plays, but who knows. For travel play, I guess sleeving is better, it did the trick for me.
 
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Paul Bauman
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Santa Cruz
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A couple of knocks against sleeving this game, for me personally.

1. I don't do penny sleeves, so these would be getting FFG sleeves or Ultra Pro. Using either of these will cause the cards to not fit back into the original -- and in this particular case quite aesthetically pleasing -- box. Having to put these cards in a deck box would be lame.

2. Chipping of black edges usually bugs me, but something about this game, the dreamy quality of it combined with the solitaire aspect almost begs for allowing the cards to season with use, or as has been stated, the "patina of usage", much like one would do with Tarot cards.
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after three games a couple of cards have quite large defects, in one point the black back-border has been completely teared off by normal shuffling. I'm really disappointed, now I have to sleeve all the game with back-covering sleeves.
 
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Keith Doyle
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Modesto
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I don't sleeve. Period. I'd sooner not deal with the game than to try to play it sleeved, and certainly, I won't be buying sleeves for anything. If you are playing a sleeved game and need another player, you might convince me to play but you'll have to do all the shuffling (which leaves deck-building games out). Cards that slip & slide over each other really suck, and you'd have to keep them all oriented the same or a mess would ensue I would think.

I would say if you DO sleeve your games, Onirim card quality is probably fine. However, if you don't, while I think the card stock and paper quality is generally good, I don't think it's appropriate for playing cards. The cards seem like they were printed by a company that has little experience in manufacturing playing cards. I'm not sure what it is, but they just don't feel right, and don't seem to mesh easily when riffle shuffling them. Another ZMan game had similar card stock quality but with an even worse problem-- Fairy Tale-- the two decks in Fairy Tale don't mesh very well at all because they are cut inconsistently, as there is often slight size differences between the two decks. I even sent for a replacement and the replacement also had the problem. The card quality feels similar, and even without the sizing problem, I think they'd have the same feel as those in Onirim. I think the problem may be they're just too thick.

After my experience with Fairy Tale and now checking the situation with my copy of Onirim (2nd edition), I'll not be buying any more Z-Man games that are card based, unless I can confirm they've fixed the problem first. Whoever their printer is, just doesn't get what you need to print playing cards.

For a contrasting example, I recently ordered a copy of Port Royal, from Pegasus Spele-- card quality is GREAT-- they're not linen finish either, but they "feel" right. They're a pleasure to shuffle. I'm not sure what it is, thickness is my guess, the Z-Man cards are too thick for comfort in shuffling. They develop a bow in the deck after a couple of riffle shuffles, such that I find the need to shuffle them upside down every other time in order to keep the deck flat-- the stock doesn't seem to have the right amount of flex, and don't fully rebound from the bend the get in a shuffle. Another comparison-- the cards used in the various Dominion boxes are fine, and while I think some have opined they're too thin, better too thin than too thick I'd say. So, thick cards are probably fine if you sleeve, but I don't.
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Candace Mercer
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Olympia
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Not a sleever, but after about 30 games my cards look lousy. And not patina Velveteen rabbit wear but ugh, this is horrible looking. I had borrowed the game and played it about 10x, and started to notice it. I bought a new copy for my friend, and now, after I have ruined my game put sleeves on my shopping list.

I am not a sleever either. This makes me sad because everything else about the game is so lovely, esp the overall presentation, and the somewhat useless Incubus.
 
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