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Gloom of Kilforth: A Fantasy Quest Game» Forums » General

Subject: Final Pre-Kick Starter Card Preview rss

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Tristan Hall
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I know I shouldn't but the art coming in just blows me away (and made me change my avatar), and it's tiding me over until my own first prototype arrives. So here's a final card preview before we hit go...

http://ratdorg.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/fantasy-quest-new-warr...
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Markus Weihrauch
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Cool stuff! This is definitely the way to go! meeple
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Chris Bogert
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Very cool, great artwork.
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Bryan
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The artwork looks great! Can't wait to back the game.
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Dicky P
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Ooo...Looks great
Good luck mate.
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TTDG
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The half dressed woman art on the warrior card is probably good as art, but it is completely ridiculous, and discordantly jarringly so, as a Warrior. It is worse than 'chicks in chainmail'. It continues to foster the concepts that women are nothing but sex objects even when they are fighters, that women can never be portrayed as feminine unless they are dressed sexy, and the impractical armor of someone who supposedly knows how to fight. In anything other than fantasy, what she's wearing would be lingerie, unsuitable for anyplace other than a beach, pool or bedroom! I can't even see the arm holding the sword, and I had to look at the art 3 times before I could even see the phallic sword blending right into the edge of the bottom scroll.

Your own text says "battle-hardy', "survive", and "perilous wilderness", yet the background of the art is of some cathedral, and the maiden is so unlike battle-hardy it would be hard to find a worse example of a warrior outside of children and the elderly. This is like a book cover where the artist clearly never read the book, which in this case is just a single sentence & 1 word.

Way to appeal to women gamers and families with kids.shakeangry
thumbsdownthumbsdown
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Tristan Hall
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Thanks for the comments and support everyone!

@TTDG, thanks for your feedback - I think Anna is a fantastic artist and I love this piece, but with respect to yourself and others who share your thoughts here's a quick poll to help canvass opinion:

Poll
Do you like the art?
Yes, it's fantastic art in a fantasy game
No, I won't buy the game because of this card
      155 answers
Poll created by ninjadorg


Either way, I'm counting the days till launch now, people!
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Giovanni
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I voted yes but I think TTDG has some very valid points. Of course I'm a guy so that may explain it, but I have to admit that I'd imagine a warrior being better armored.
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As it is not the only card of this ilk perhaps the poll should read "...won't buy because of these cards"

If it were just the one card I'd ignore it, unfortunately it's not.
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Daniel Drickman
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If the game was fantastic then possibly, but the art is turn off.
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Daniel Drickman
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And I'm not against sexy when it's appropriate. But the art is pretty much fantasy pin up, not in anyway relevant to the character or the theme of the game
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Tristan Hall
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truthd wrote:
I voted yes but I think TTDG has some very valid points. Of course I'm a guy so that may explain it, but I have to admit that I'd imagine a warrior being better armored.
@Giovanni, thanks for your input!


TracyB wrote:
As it is not the only card of this ilk perhaps the poll should read "...won't buy because of these cards"

If it were just the one card I'd ignore it, unfortunately it's not.
@TracyB, could you tell me which other cards you're referring to please?
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Bryan
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You can't please everyone and if you try to, you'll end up alienating your target audience (and I'm pretty sure your target isn't children and families).

The game is called FANTASY quest. The artwork is pretty classic Fantasy, i.e scantily clad female. Sorry but that's the way a lot of Fantasy women are portrayed.

Many of my games have this issue but I don't see the stink put up in their forums.

I just ask that if you want to get upset about the portrayal of women in the Fantasy genre, please take it to a much more visible forum.

This is a small game creayed by a single person. While your points are valid and many agree, I think it derails all the work Tristian has done.

So please be respectful and if you feel strongly, make your concerns made at a higher level.

Thanks.
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What appears to be a character card for the Human Paladin is the worst for me but also the Smuggler and Swashbuckler.
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Jonathan Franklin
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Have you considered a stretch goal for alternate art for those cards (or an add-on)?
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Mark Campo
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i'm ok with the art but it raised the alert "Non-Pc art bells post" on the back of neck

i went on to say more but deleted it ..keep it simple . art worries me..
is from a by gone era..

lovely era .. but don't think its revival is here and now..so might affect some voters

was a while before i notice the sword on said warrior .. which mean she might have shived me and its a valid tactic.. but that kinda lead down rogue eques routes in its self...


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Tristan Hall
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grandslam wrote:
Have you considered a stretch goal for alternate art for those cards (or an add-on)?
I have now, sensible suggestion sir!


DanKD wrote:
And I'm not against sexy when it's appropriate. But the art is pretty much fantasy pin up, not in anyway relevant to the character or the theme of the game
DanKD wrote:
If the game was fantastic then possibly, but the art is turn off.
Thanks for voting Dan, and of course the game is fantastic. whistle
But if you're genuinely interested in the theme and character of the game, just throw in a dollar when it starts to stay subscribed for updates on the people and personalities of the world, particularly the Wild Claw barbarians.


usfbrown wrote:

This is a small game creayed by a single person.
Thanks for your thoughts, Bryan - it feels like a BIG game created by a single person to me, but I gets ya!


TracyB wrote:
What appears to be a character card for the Human Paladin is the worst for me but also the Smuggler and Swashbuckler.
I covered this in the overview video, but I should clarify here too - those are placeholders from the prototype and that art will not be in the final game.
The only official art released so far is on the kick starter page. cool


Milarky wrote:

was a while before i notice the sword on said warrior .. which mean she might have shived me and its a valid tactic.. but that kinda lead down rogue eques routes in its self...
laugh
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Mark Campo
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font wise do you have many options to make look appealing?
current font is very generic PC computer font? what does lotr lcg use?
i dunno if the stickt straight edges or the font in them edges that bothers me most

my background is graphic design. but tastes do vary

seems sanserif vs serif
flicking though lotr lcg all serify.. flcik to dark moon latest sci game .. non serif...
over view looking over games collecting boxes of sci-fi vs non sci-fi games..
fantasy = serif style

non serif style takes away / jars with the scroll work
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Lynette
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It is a beautiful picture, but that would have to be bedroom warrior wear.

It wouldn't be safe to train with wooden swords dressed like that, very well go into battle.

I don't get as riled up about this stuff as many others do, but honestly even for me it would have to be a really really fantastic game, and I would have to know that by playing other people's copies first, for me to buy it if this is how most of the females are portrayed. It is highly unlikely I would kick start it or buy it on spec no matter how great it sounds on paper as is.

Again, I love the quality of the Art, your artist is fantastic!! But I do like even my fantasy art to be a little more believable when it comes to functionality of clothing and equipment being depicted for either gender, but especially for females.
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ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Your own text says "battle-hardy', "survive", and "perilous wilderness", yet the background of the art is of some cathedral, and the maiden is so unlike battle-hardy it would be hard to find a worse example of a warrior outside of children and the elderly. This is like a book cover where the artist clearly never read the book, which in this case is just a single sentence & 1 word.
I am not sure if you have read through the rules or not but it might be worth noting that the warrior can be one of four classes Elf, Human, Demon and Dwarf so finding a piece of art to capture all four races in one image would be a little tricky, that youthful appearance might hide decades of immortal life and training making her more than "battle-hardy" but possibly even weary.

As for the background you'll know I am sure from playing the PnP or reading through the rules that the places your hero encounters whilst playing the game can be found in the Badlands, Forest, Mountains, or Plains which suit my definition of wilderness more than adequately. So perhaps the artist has a better feel for the game than you have?

By all means you do not have to like the art but assuming that the Artist (and presumably Tristan who has commissioned the piece) has provided artwork that is not in keeping with the game and text is at the end of the day your opinion. Vote with your wallet as shall I.
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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ninjadorg wrote:
Thanks for the comments and support everyone!

@TTDG, thanks for your feedback - I think Anna is a fantastic artist and I love this piece, but with respect to yourself and others who share your thoughts here's a quick poll to help canvass opinion:

Poll
Do you like the art?
Yes, it's fantastic art in a fantasy game
No, I won't buy the game because of this card
      155 answers
Poll created by ninjadorg


Either way, I'm counting the days till launch now, people!
There are options in between these two . The card won't stop me from buying the game, but it's a mark against it for me.
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Kim Williams
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mortenmdk wrote:
ninjadorg wrote:
Thanks for the comments and support everyone!

@TTDG, thanks for your feedback - I think Anna is a fantastic artist and I love this piece, but with respect to yourself and others who share your thoughts here's a quick poll to help canvass opinion:

Poll
Do you like the art?
Yes, it's fantastic art in a fantasy game
No, I won't buy the game because of this card
      155 answers
Poll created by ninjadorg


Either way, I'm counting the days till launch now, people!
There are options in between these two . The card won't stop me from buying the game, but it's a mark against it for me.
Yup, the poll is a false dichotomy.

Surely if there was really the intention of judging strength of feeling about the card there'd also be a third option of something like:

"I'd rather the art on this card was changed - although I'm still interested in the game with the existing art"

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truthd wrote:
I voted yes but I think TTDG has some very valid points. Of course I'm a guy so that may explain it, but I have to admit that I'd imagine a warrior being better armored.
FWIW, voted no, please look at Andor or Barony for (better IMHO) examples regarding this topic.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/956376/female-characters-or...

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1351316/will-there-be-femal...

Good luck wih your game!
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Nice art, thanks for showing it. Looking forward to checking out the game.

Tristan, don't be too concerned about the poll results. BGG tends to be a bit over sensitive.
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Tristan Hall
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Milarky wrote:
font wise do you have many options to make look appealing?
current font is very generic PC computer font? what does lotr lcg use?
i dunno if the stickt straight edges or the font in them edges that bothers me most

my background is graphic design. but tastes do vary

seems sanserif vs serif
flicking though lotr lcg all serify.. flcik to dark moon latest sci game .. non serif...
over view looking over games collecting boxes of sci-fi vs non sci-fi games..
fantasy = serif style

non serif style takes away / jars with the scroll work
My main concern with the font is legibility – it’s currently Mentor Sans Std with Knight’s Quest for titles (though I’m leaning towards changing titles back to Mentor Sans too).
I believe Lord of the Rings LCG uses Vafthrudnir and Times New Roman?
And Tom Howard (GeckoTH) has redesigned the logo using unzialish – you can see the results here:

http://ratdorg.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/fantasy-quest-cover-ne...



Meerkat wrote:
It is a beautiful picture, but that would have to be bedroom warrior wear.

It wouldn't be safe to train with wooden swords dressed like that, very well go into battle.

I don't get as riled up about this stuff as many others do, but honestly even for me it would have to be a really really fantastic game, and I would have to know that by playing other people's copies first, for me to buy it if this is how most of the females are portrayed. It is highly unlikely I would kick start it or buy it on spec no matter how great it sounds on paper as is.

Again, I love the quality of the Art, your artist is fantastic!! But I do like even my fantasy art to be a little more believable when it comes to functionality of clothing and equipment being depicted for either gender, but especially for females.
Thanks for your thoughts, Lynette.
Admittedly you might get the chance to pick this up on eBay, but I’m not sure how far it will go beyond Kick Starter as I’m not a games company, just a guy with a game. If you’re hesitant to back for any reason, watch the instructional videos I uploaded as they cover every aspect of the gameplay.



jokeroz wrote:
I am not sure if you have read through the rules or not but it might be worth noting that the warrior can be one of four classes Elf, Human, Demon and Dwarf so finding a piece of art to capture all four races in one image would be a little tricky, that youthful appearance might hide decades of immortal life and training making her more than "battle-hardy" but possibly even weary.

As for the background you'll know I am sure from playing the PnP or reading through the rules that the places your hero encounters whilst playing the game can be found in the Badlands, Forest, Mountains, or Plains which suit my definition of wilderness more than adequately. So perhaps the artist has a better feel for the game than you have?

By all means you do not have to like the art but assuming that the Artist (and presumably Tristan who has commissioned the piece) has provided artwork that is not in keeping with the game and text is at the end of the day your opinion. Vote with your wallet as shall I.
Very lucid and articulate response, thanks Nick.


mortenmdk wrote:
There are options in between these two . The card won't stop me from buying the game, but it's a mark against it for me.

entwife wrote:
Yup, the poll is a false dichotomy.

Surely if there was really the intention of judging strength of feeling about the card there'd also be a third option of something like:

"I'd rather the art on this card was changed - although I'm still interested in the game with the existing art"

(Cross posted from here: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19795245#19795245)

I appreciate that there could be as many opinion-based permutations to this poll as there are people on the internet but it’s just a simple question about the art really: yay or nay. I doubt it would stop the game from being produced or anything.
Imagine there’s a gun to your head and you have to choose one option – now go!
Or don’t - it’s just a poll.
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