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Subject: Crafting in the Zpocalypse rss

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Shawn Hayden (GBG)
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We would love to hear what kind of things you would like to craft in the Zpocalypse. We already have plans but we love to hear new great ideas! So jump in and let us know.
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Frank Clark
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The Dead Island Series, the Dead Rising Series both had great crafting ideas.

Dead Rising used virtual cards as recipes for items needed.

Crafting that opens better fortifications. Like if you have a crafting table you can make some brackets and such to make a stronger tower. Or maybe you can make the fortifications quicker.

The Scrap Electronics + Ammo to make a RC Car bomb....we need to drop a little car out of a window and drive it to the zombies for some nice boom!

scrap metal could be made into armor (like the stop sign shield but not carried)

propane tank + scrap metal makes frag bomb that you have to shoot

scrap metal, scrap wood and fire extinguisher rocket propelled spears/ballista....zombie kabobs

I have to get back to work

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Matt K
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This War of Mine had a lot of interesting crafting ideas though it was much more down-to-earth ideas like machine shops, gardens, water filters and such.

The whole way the game was designed played very much like a zombie apocalypse without the zombies.

You did crafting and base building during the day and at night you went out scavenging. Zburbia seems to be doing many similar things.

One thing I liked in This War of Mine was the variety of places and situations you would find when scavenging. There was a hospital still open that would treat your wounds if you visited. There were places you could go that had people willing to trade and you could steal from under their noses if you wanted, kill them all, or just trade like normal. There were dangerous locations with criminals or soldiers and even places where normal people who were completely defenseless were living and you could just take all their stuff with no negative except feeling like a terrible person.

Of course in that game depression was a real thing and if you stole from people your characters got depressed. If depression got too bad the person would stop doing anything. You had to get other survivors to do things for them including feed them or they would just starve to death. Awesome game. Maybe worth taking some cues from.
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Shawn Hayden (GBG)
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Lythaeum wrote:
The Dead Island Series, the Dead Rising Series both had great crafting ideas.

Dead Rising used virtual cards as recipes for items needed.

Crafting that opens better fortifications. Like if you have a crafting table you can make some brackets and such to make a stronger tower. Or maybe you can make the fortifications quicker.

The Scrap Electronics + Ammo to make a RC Car bomb....we need to drop a little car out of a window and drive it to the zombies for some nice boom!

scrap metal could be made into armor (like the stop sign shield but not carried)

propane tank + scrap metal makes frag bomb that you have to shoot

scrap metal, scrap wood and fire extinguisher rocket propelled spears/ballista....zombie kabobs

I have to get back to work



You'll be glad to know we are already exploring upgradable/repairable fortifications. I like the RC Car Bomb haha, if it isn't in the game maybe we'll need a promo card! We are adding booze and a lighter into Zpoc 2, amongst other things, so some new fun with explosives could be great!
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Shawn Hayden (GBG)
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AstorSigma wrote:
This War of Mine had a lot of interesting crafting ideas though it was much more down-to-earth ideas like machine shops, gardens, water filters and such.

The whole way the game was designed played very much like a zombie apocalypse without the zombies.

You did crafting and base building during the day and at night you went out scavenging. Zburbia seems to be doing many similar things.

One thing I liked in This War of Mine was the variety of places and situations you would find when scavenging. There was a hospital still open that would treat your wounds if you visited. There were places you could go that had people willing to trade and you could steal from under their noses if you wanted, kill them all, or just trade like normal. There were dangerous locations with criminals or soldiers and even places where normal people who were completely defenseless were living and you could just take all their stuff with no negative except feeling like a terrible person.

Of course in that game depression was a real thing and if you stole from people your characters got depressed. If depression got too bad the person would stop doing anything. You had to get other survivors to do things for them including feed them or they would just starve to death. Awesome game. Maybe worth taking some cues from.


I haven't played This War of Mine yet (it is on my Steam wishlist) but I know others on the team have and there are some elements where we have taken inspiration from it so very good call there! As for the scavenging, I think you'll really enjoy the new direction we have gone with the choose-your-own-adventure scavenging system because it adds a lot more depth and we are really excited about how easy it is going to be for us to put out more regular updates of new content since it no longer requires cards and we can send out print and plays!

On the subject of depression, we have been toying for some morale mechanics, but haven't got anything set in stone. We think this could definitely add a new dimension to the game and how you try to survive.
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Thibaud Dejardin
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-stronger barricades that impact zombie path.
-Important: a cooking pot, or a stove to cook food properly (maybe to be able to eat rotten food). You should use some wood/scrap or fuel to make it running when you cook.
-A demolition bench, where you can trade weapoons you don't use for raw materials.
-Special ameliorations for tower for example (one and only one for each tower): stron tower (more resilient), sniper tower (bonus for ranged weapons), watchtower (more visibility or count one "on patrol" survivor for two)...
-Radio material (to create a new role to be able to recruit survivors).
-Garden to produce food, but I think it's already in.
-Rat trap, to get some food from time to time.
-A dog you should feed until you it send like a decoy (X zombies are not part of the horde this turn).
-A distillery to make water and/or alcohol (used like gas or to make molotov).

I think morale would be a really great idea, but it should remain relatively simple.
In "this war of mine", survivors had some addictions (cigarette, alcohol...) that helped them to stay in a good mood. Some skills helped, too (like cooker, you could have a psychologist).
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tom mills
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i just posted this on the KS, i thought i would post it here too

@Greenbrier, cool, you can not beat a lawn mower lol,

you say that its posible to make beer, how about some stims ie energy drinks/made up drug etc, the beer could give you +stats or -stats depend on how roll the dice or whatever when you consume the beer, the +side would be something like making you a bit of a controlled berserker or the complete oppersite making you drunk and fire wildly possibly hitting "friendlies" ,

the stims same sort of thing but the +stats make you move and carry more and the -stats you OD and sit there shaking and can not move that turn and if need be you will need defending,

will we be able to craft a "noise distraction" item witch we could throw out of a window or plant somewhere on map to distract the zombies, could even give it a delayed explosion!

for weapon combos you could do...
strimmer+blade+petrol(to get it going) = head cutter
wooden plank+nails = nailed plank
bottle+petrol+rag+lighter = molatov
aerosol can+lighter = hand flamer
possibly you could use kitchen cuboard doors as a make shift shield, same for a round metal garbage can lid!
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Matt K
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While it's good to brainstorm ideas, I think it's important to keep in mind that this is not a video game and that there is such a thing as too much fiddliness.

I love Arkham Horror. It's a fun boardgame. But it is way to fiddly and I don't play it anymore because of that. It's important not to overwhelm a game with so many options and complexities to the point where it becomes cumbersome rather than enjoyable.

That being said, if you are going to add an option or complexity to a board game, you should try to make it intuitive. Intuitive rules can keep complexity in check to a certain extent.
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tom mills
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it would be good to get an idea of what sort of items there are to combine and collect
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Matt K
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Exo Desta wrote:
AstorSigma wrote:
While it's good to brainstorm ideas, I think it's important to keep in mind that this is not a video game and that there is such a thing as too much fiddliness.

I love Arkham Horror. It's a fun boardgame. But it is way to fiddly and I don't play it anymore because of that. It's important not to overwhelm a game with so many options and complexities to the point where it becomes cumbersome rather than enjoyable.

That being said, if you are going to add an option or complexity to a board game, you should try to make it intuitive. Intuitive rules can keep complexity in check to a certain extent.


Good point, but this is such a crunchy thread! arrrh

It's this side of the game that really has me intrigued; I hope the team really takes their time with it and fleshes it out nicely for us. Could make for one hell of a game.


I'm not saying don't have crunch, I'm just saying don't overdo it. It's easy to let your excitement get the better of you and end up with an overcomplicated simulation that nobody wants to play.

At this point, I agree that we could use more information about how this stuff is supposed to work in the rules. I'd love to see a gameplay video with explanations of the different systems in the game.
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Frank Clark
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AstorSigma wrote:
While it's good to brainstorm ideas, I think it's important to keep in mind that this is not a video game and that there is such a thing as too much fiddliness.

I love Arkham Horror. It's a fun boardgame. But it is way to fiddly and I don't play it anymore because of that. It's important not to overwhelm a game with so many options and complexities to the point where it becomes cumbersome rather than enjoyable.

That being said, if you are going to add an option or complexity to a board game, you should try to make it intuitive. Intuitive rules can keep complexity in check to a certain extent.


I think this is why zpocalypse uses scrap wood, metal and electronics. To avoid too much specific fiddling
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Ben Thornton
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Lythaeum wrote:
AstorSigma wrote:
While it's good to brainstorm ideas, I think it's important to keep in mind that this is not a video game and that there is such a thing as too much fiddliness.

I love Arkham Horror. It's a fun boardgame. But it is way to fiddly and I don't play it anymore because of that. It's important not to overwhelm a game with so many options and complexities to the point where it becomes cumbersome rather than enjoyable.

That being said, if you are going to add an option or complexity to a board game, you should try to make it intuitive. Intuitive rules can keep complexity in check to a certain extent.


I think this is why zpocalypse uses scrap wood, metal and electronics. To avoid too much specific fiddling


I agree. Rather than have specific item combos (Eg. item x + item y + item z = item A , etc), I think using types of "ingredients" is a better way to go. Like 2 wood + 1 metal to create a bat with nails or 3 metal to create a sword. And as you upgrade crafting stations like the workbench then more options are available. Take the sword for example. 3 metal + 2 electronics could create an "electric sword" on the upgraded workbench.

Or you could do away with crafting weapons all together and only have "ingredients" used to upgrade your base. Only way to find weapons is to search for them.
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Frank Clark
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"Or you could do away with crafting weapons all together and only have "ingredients" used to upgrade your base. Only way to find weapons is to search for them."

Ack! No

We need to craft weapons

Nail Bat

We also need to reverse craft / deconstruct
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Ben Thornton
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Lythaeum wrote:
"Or you could do away with crafting weapons all together and only have "ingredients" used to upgrade your base. Only way to find weapons is to search for them."

Ack! No

We need to craft weapons

Nail Bat

We also need to reverse craft / deconstruct


We'll have to agree to disagree there. I loved This War of Mine because it didn't have weapon crafting. I really liked the managing resources to upgrade the base and finding, or trading for, a firearm was such a highlight.
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Shawn Hayden (GBG)
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Ack I try and quote/reply each thread but this one got a little away from me today. So here is a couple of highlights to touch on the points brought up.

@Blaspheme We are working on functionality to have some upgradeable and repairable fortifcations. Still in the works though. Gardens are in. Animals already exist in the original Zpoc, and now we have the battle bot but we are working on enhanced rules for *scout* party members like pets. You can also now make booze!

On the subject of morale, I agree it would need to be simple, which is exactlly why it is something we are still hashing out .

@Tom We have thought out med crafting but haven't gone down that route as of yet. That is one of those limited stock items we want to try and keep limited (kind of like advanced weaponry/guns). Now upgradeable weapons are already in the works and receiving some design love.

@Matt Couldn't agree more. We've learned our lesson with the fiddly side of things and are working our best to avoid that.

@Tom Currently items used in crafting are wood scrap, metal scrap, electronic scrap, food, fuel and fire. Not to mention the various *crafting stations* for lack of a better term.

@Brian Crunch is good, as long as it isn't crunchy beans

@Matt Gameplay video is going out in the update tomorrow! It is only one round and is a little high level but it should give some good insight. A little spoiler for the BGG folks from our update for tomorrow, we are also looking at trying out at least 1 livestream where we will be playing the game and answering questions. If it goes well we might do another.

@Frank Exactlly! (Also exactlly, why we were using the same system in Zpocalypse: Survival - though the crafting tables in there were quite a bit more complicated)

@Ben When you say electric sword all I can think about is this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Shishkebab_(Fallout_3) but with electricity instead.

@Frank Deconstruction you say? You can now craft scrap!

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Matt K
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@Ben I don't know what version of This War of Mine you played but mine totally had weapon crafting. And I don't see a problem with weapon crafting at all. It was a blast in Dead Island and I think it could be fun here, depending on how it's done.
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Thibaud Dejardin
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Dakcenturi wrote:

@Ben When you say electric sword all I can think about is this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Shishkebab_(Fallout_3) but with electricity instead.

In "Dead island", there's a lot of "weapon mods".
The "old smoky mod" was impressive, for example.

Electric machete:

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Barry Kendall
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Early-warning system (cans with pebbles strung on wire, battery-powered motion-activated audible or strobe light alarm).

Pitfalls.

Entry/exit maze with dead ends (no pun intended) designed to tangle up zombies away from the actual entrance.

Fougas.
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Frank Clark
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Electric fence
generator + scrap metal
or barbed wire fence + generator

heck add electricity to any gate with some scrap metal.

It should drain the generator a lot to use that much juice...need lots of fuel and/or multiple generators

I feel zombie shouldn't die from electric shocks but they should at least be thrown back, stunned and hurt.
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Ben Thornton
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Lythaeum wrote:
Electric fence
generator + scrap metal
or barbed wire fence + generator

heck add electricity to any gate with some scrap metal.

It should drain the generator a lot to use that much juice...need lots of fuel and/or multiple generators

I feel zombie shouldn't die from electric shocks but they should at least be thrown back, stunned and hurt.

But the sound of the generator running would gain the attention of more zombies....
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Frank Clark
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yes could be a good trap...or something to use if you are already being swarmed.

Keep the zombies at the perimeter, stunned and take your shots.
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tom mills
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Ive copy and pasted what i have said on the KS campaign page


Re-guarding upgradable weapons, ive a few ideas:

Scope - Better Accuracy

Red Dot - Better Accuracy

Grenade Launcher - Big Boom

Bayonet - +1 Damage

Stock - Better Accuracy

Silencer - Attract Less Zombies

Tri-Pod/Stand - Better Accuracy

Upgradable Bullets - Armour Piercing - +1 damage


Traps:

Fire Pit

Electrified Pond


Other Weapons:

Ninja Stars

Chainsaw

Machete

Bricks/BreezeBlocks

Barbed Wire Bat
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tom mills
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I like the electric fence idea mention by Lythaeum it would also make a good trap, couldnt it and my pond idea be charged/powered by car/Truck battery? it wouldnt be as noisy as a generator!
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Frank Clark
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Zombie survival guid had a good idea of breaking out the stairs in a house to stop the zombies from making it to the second floor.

I would like to get a rubble token or two to represent broken stairs, or broken walls or just rubble that we pace if we want to break things or maybe big boss broke some stuff.

Maybe broken fortifications become rubble that can used as scrap.

Oh I geas we also need to craft a ladder to replace those broken stairs. A ladder can be pulled up if needed.
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zee Parks
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Lythaeum wrote:
Zombie survival guid had a good idea of breaking out the stairs in a house to stop the zombies from making it to the second floor.

I would like to get a rubble token or two to represent broken stairs, or broken walls or just rubble that we pace if we want to break things or maybe big boss broke some stuff.

Maybe broken fortifications become rubble that can used as scrap.

Oh I geas we also need to craft a ladder to replace those broken stairs. A ladder can be pulled up if needed.


Lookouttower already acts as a ladder granting access for 1st to second floor.

Stair shaped rubble tokens might be a part of the token pack if I can fit it.


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