Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: Hybrid cooperative/non-cooperative games? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Robert Goldman

Minnesota
msg tools
Can anyone recommend games that hybridize between cooperative and non-cooperative? I'm thinking particularly of games where players can choose whether the game is winner/losers or all win/all lose.

The games which are cooperative but have a traitor are a step in this direction, but not all the way, since the traitor roll is assigned (are there games where the traitor role is chosen instead?).

Similarly on the way are games where you must cooperate on your way to win/loss.

But I was wondering if there were any where the situation was more fluid: where the players can choose whether it's zero sum or not.

Thanks!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wesley M
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Greatest Game Ever
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So basically you are looking for a game where you can opt to "Go it alone" if you believe you can beat everyone else?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LeonTrotsky wrote:
Can anyone recommend games that hybridize between cooperative and non-cooperative? I'm thinking particularly of games where players can choose whether the game is winner/losers or all win/all lose.

The games which are cooperative but have a traitor are a step in this direction, but not all the way, since the traitor roll is assigned (are there games where the traitor role is chosen instead?).

Similarly on the way are games where you must cooperate on your way to win/loss.

But I was wondering if there were any where the situation was more fluid: where the players can choose whether it's zero sum or not.

Thanks!


Red November
At a certain point a gnome can choose to leave the sub and leave everyone else to die.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, Archipelago.

If the natives become too unhappy, everyone loses.

So if a player realizes they have no chance of winning, they could tank the game for everyone else.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
'Bernard Wingrave'
United States
Wyoming
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Terra may be worth checking out. The game has either one winner or no winners. If players cooperate enough, the one with the most points wins. But if players hoard too many resources (which are points), it's possible for the game to end without a winner.

On most turns, each player will have the option to contribute resources toward preventing a crisis (but if you don't have cards of that type, you can't work toward preventing it). If you contribute a card on your turn, you can also hoard a set of cards (3 cards meeting certain criteria may be put permanently out of play, with the points to be scored at the end of the game).

In my experience, this comes down to whether the players value winning individually or cooperating more. At one game night, we lost 3 times in a row because there were enough players who were hoarding cards. Most other times (usually with other players), we have had a winner.

Terra is available in the BGG marketplace for a reasonable price.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Italy
Torino
flag msg tools
[______|_hi]
badge
[intentionally left blank]
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LeonTrotsky wrote:
Can anyone recommend games that hybridize between cooperative and non-cooperative? I'm thinking particularly of games where players can choose whether the game is winner/losers or all win/all lose.

The games which are cooperative but have a traitor are a step in this direction, but not all the way, since the traitor roll is assigned (are there games where the traitor role is chosen instead?).

Similarly on the way are games where you must cooperate on your way to win/loss.

But I was wondering if there were any where the situation was more fluid: where the players can choose whether it's zero sum or not.

Thanks!


I'm not sure I understand what you are after.
A co-op game where one player can decide mid-game to become an enemy to the others?

Red November has that. All of you are trying to keep the submarine functioning until the rescue team saves you, but a player (if it has the right equipment) can betray the others and simply leave the submarine (player a friend's copy ages ago, but I believe in this case the traitor wins and everyone else loses).

Rune Age in one of the co-op scenarios allows (it's an event of the last group of the deck) players to attack other players that have more life than them. If the attacking player manages to kill the other one, he/she wins alone.
Of course everyone could just wait out the turn and prepare for the next one -when you are back to the win/lose together.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carel Teijgeler
Netherlands
Vlaardingen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mage Knight offers the opportunity to play it co-op or competitive. You can also play it solo.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Breckenridge
United States
Richmond
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fortune and Glory: The Cliffhanger Game can be played cooperatively against bad guys or competitively against players, or competitively against both other players and bad guys.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JCV
United States
Rolling Meadows
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I believe both Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game and Castaways do this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Fuhrmann
United States
Harrison
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gem Rush can be played either co-op or competitive. We prefer co-op.

Someone mentioned Castaways - this may vary depending on your group's attitudes toward winning and losing, but it's more like the group as a whole can win or lose, but if the group wins, one person "wins" more than the others. It's kind of like how if the group wins in Castle Panic, then one person is the "master slayer." But if you lose, you all lose together.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dezza
Australia
South Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wondering if something like A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition) fits your description.
You can make alliances, and be 'co-operative' but the alliances are only agreements and not binding or even true. The game is only won by one person.

Something else is The Battle at Kemble's Cascade. It's a game where the winner is the person who gains the most points wins. You are free to attack other players at any time to gain points, but can play it co-operatively.

Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game has the option for a player who dies first to take control of an 'alien' deck and work to finish off the other players. It also has the option to play with hidden objectives and traitor mechanics.

K____ wrote:
Red November has that. All of you are trying to keep the submarine functioning until the rescue team saves you, but a player (if it has the right equipment) can betray the others and simply leave the submarine (player a friend's copy ages ago, but I believe in this case the traitor wins and everyone else loses).
The traitor wins if the others fail to succeed. If the players do succeed, the one that left the ship loses.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lisa Miller
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Level 7 [Escape] is a semi-cooperative game, so you can work together to escape as a team or screw people over to save yourself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Wilson
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Not sure about OP's specific inquiry. But...

Kill Shakespeare is a semi-coop where you're working together toward a common goal, but one winner can be crowned.

Paperback is competitive, but has an official cooperative variant.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Gustafson
United States
Warsaw
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
“The elements of good trading are: (1) cutting losses, (2) cutting losses, and (3) cutting losses. If you can follow these three rules, you may have a chance.” – Ed Seykota
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Republic of Rome
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Goldman

Minnesota
msg tools
That's right: not a game where you cooperate for just a transitional period before trying to win, or where the game has a coop/competitive switch up front, but a game where there's a choice.

Something that's part of the way there is the interesting mechanic in A Study in Emerald where the players are revolutionaries or reactionaries, and all the revolutionaries (reactionaries) lose if the lowest-scoring player is a revolutionary (reactionary).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LeonTrotsky wrote:
That's right: not a game where you cooperate for just a transitional period before trying to win, or where the game has a coop/competitive switch up front, but a game where there's a choice.

Something that's part of the way there is the interesting mechanic in A Study in Emerald where the players are revolutionaries or reactionaries, and all the revolutionaries (reactionaries) lose if the lowest-scoring player is a revolutionary (reactionary).


Can you help us out by commenting on the suggestions so far... do any of these come close to what you're describing?

Red November, for example, has been mentioned a couple times, and it seems there is a "choice" in the game. Is this what you're looking for, or not?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Zdan
United States
Council Bluffs
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cutthroat Caverns *disclaimer - I've never played, but from what I understand players need to cooperate in order to make it through the dungeon up to a point where someone thinks they're strong enough or close enough to the finish to backstab everyone and win for themselves. If that happens too early, or too many people try, then fail to win themselves, then everyone can die/lose.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Goldman

Minnesota
msg tools
JohnnyDollar wrote:
LeonTrotsky wrote:
That's right: not a game where you cooperate for just a transitional period before trying to win, or where the game has a coop/competitive switch up front, but a game where there's a choice.

Something that's part of the way there is the interesting mechanic in A Study in Emerald where the players are revolutionaries or reactionaries, and all the revolutionaries (reactionaries) lose if the lowest-scoring player is a revolutionary (reactionary).


Can you help us out by commenting on the suggestions so far... do any of these come close to what you're describing?

Red November, for example, has been mentioned a couple times, and it seems there is a "choice" in the game. Is this what you're looking for, or not?


Yes, that's right, Red November seems like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Something where there's a mix that's different from the more standard "cooperate for a while, then decide when to defect" where there's always a single winner at the end.

Republic of Rome and others provide a different spin on that cooperate-then-defect pattern by providing external threats to the entire group, instead of just internal threats from other players (as in, say, Diplomacy).

BTW, I'm a novice with BGG, so I apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring the responses: I didn't understand that mailing me the responses meant mailing me the responses on BGG, so I didn't realize that there had been responses until recently.

Thanks to everyone who replied.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Sherman Oaks
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You should hit the subscribe button towards the top of the page. It'll make it a little easier to keep track of when people respond to this forum post.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.