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Subject: This or Caverna rss

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Thomas
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I have not played either but they both look very appealing. Which of the two would you choose and why? I'm not very familiar with any of the designers games if that matters. Is there room for both? What similarities do they have and what separates them from each other?
 
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Scott Russell
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Arle is strictly 2er and Caverna plays better with more than two, if that helps. They are different enough that if you play with both two and with more, it wouldn't hurt to have both.
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Steph Hodge
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I have not played either but they both look very appealing. Which of the two would you choose and why? I'm not very familiar with any of the designers games if that matters. Is there room for both? What similarities do they have and what separates them from each other?


Definitely room for both.

I have been playing them both weekly or MORE than weekly for the past 1-2 months.

I am highly addicted to both.

I play A LOT of 2 player games and a lot of > 2 player games.

Caverna with 2 is pretty good. I played 2 times yesterday with 2 players and it was wonderful. I think I still prefer to play Fields of Arle with 2.


It really depends if you play mostly 2 player games or not. If you do- I recommend Fields of Arle for sure! It is a true winner and in 1st place for my Uwe R list. Actually, tied with Le Havre. Caverna is right behind it.

Both games are very different. same in that there is planning to do and a small feeding to be done at the end of each round.

If you don't play 2 player games I would say get Caverna. I haven't tried Caverna Solo but Arle plays ok solo- still better with 2 players.

It really just depends on how often and with whom you play.


I really recommend both. Fantastic. Last week I played Caverna 3 times (4p and 2-2p games) and Arle 1 time. But I have definitely played Arle more than Caverna since I just learned Caverna about a month ago.

SO GOOD
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Thomas
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punkin312 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I have not played either but they both look very appealing. Which of the two would you choose and why? I'm not very familiar with any of the designers games if that matters. Is there room for both? What similarities do they have and what separates them from each other?


Definitely room for both.

I have been playing them both weekly or MORE than weekly for the past 1-2 months.

I am highly addicted to both.

I play A LOT of 2 player games and a lot of > 2 player games.

Caverna with 2 is pretty good. I played 2 times yesterday with 2 players and it was wonderful. I think I still prefer to play Fields of Arle with 2.


It really depends if you play mostly 2 player games or not. If you do- I recommend Fields of Arle for sure! It is a true winner and in 1st place for my Uwe R list. Actually, tied with Le Havre. Caverna is right behind it.

Both games are very different. same in that there is planning to do and a small feeding to be done at the end of each round.

If you don't play 2 player games I would say get Caverna. I haven't tried Caverna Solo but Arle plays ok solo- still better with 2 players.

It really just depends on how often and with whom you play.


I really recommend both. Fantastic. Last week I played Caverna 3 times (4p and 2-2p games) and Arle 1 time. But I have definitely played Arle more than Caverna since I just learned Caverna about a month ago.

SO GOOD


We mainly play with two. I looked at LeHarve but it didn't seem like something we'd enjoy. I am considering Glass Roads though.
 
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Mikko Saari
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If you mainly play with two, Arle is a great choice.
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Daniel B-G
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Both Caverna and Fields of Arle are sandbox designs. The difference is that Caverna is far more limited in scope, but has the ability to expand up to more than 2 players.

I don't think that the gameplay in Caverna is rich enough to warrant setting it up for 2 players only. Too many bits, not enough game. I'd say Caverna takes longer to set up, but takes half the time to play. Bad maths.

There are actually less bits in Fields of Arle as they've simplified a lot of the resource tracking, but nevertheless there is more going on. There's slightly more flexibility in the setup as some of the buildings rotate, so that adds scope to expand later without powercreep.

When I say the game isn't rich enough I mean the options look like this.

Caverna
Option 1: Farming
->1a: Fields
->1b: Animals
Option 2: Delving
Option 3: Mining
Option 4: Rooms

That's about it.

Fields of Arle
Option 1: Animals
->1a: All animals->Points
->1b: Cows & Horses->Food and hides->Leather
->1c: Sheep->Wool->Clothes
Option 2: Fields
->2a: Flax->Linen->Clothes
->2b: Wheat->Food
Option 3: Skills
->3a: Utility only
->3b: Scoring points
Option 4: Travel
->4a: Maximum fulfilment to gain food
->4b: Bare minimum to score points
Option 5: Buildings
Option 6: Peat cutting
Option 7: Dike building
Option 8: Resource hoarding
->8a: Basic resources with Depot
->8b: Processed resources (Linen/Wool/Leather->Clothes)(Wood->Timber)(Clay->Brick)

That's from memory so I may have missed a bit. There's quite a bit of interlinkage there, but you get the gist.
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Yours Truly,
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There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game
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Sam Cook
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I think Glass Road is best with higher player counts, but it is much quicker and lighter than the average Uwe game.

Arle is my favorite of his I've played. I particularly like that there is no central board upkeep between rounds. A lot of his other games have you draw new cards or add resources to certain spaces. With this one, everything is more or less set up from the beginning.

Also the resource chains are crazy in depth which I think is great, but YMMV. For example you need sheep to get wool, and then you process wool into fabric, and then you turn the fabric into clothing. You can then trade the clothing for food, or keep it for points.
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game


Funny, literally at the exact same timestamp as my post, there was this reply in another thread reporting that it seems a reprint of Fields of Arle is in whistle

Re: Will there be a reprint?
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Thomas
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game


Funny, literally at the exact same timestamp as my post, there was this reply in another thread reporting that it seems a reprint of Fields of Arle is in whistle

Re: Will there be a reprint?


Think this is an "act fast" situation? Will they sell out and then be hard to get again?
 
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game


Funny, literally at the exact same timestamp as my post, there was this reply in another thread reporting that it seems a reprint of Fields of Arle is in whistle

Re: Will there be a reprint?


Think this is an "act fast" situation? Will they sell out and then be hard to get again?


Nah, if there really is reprint stock in, you should have plenty of time...
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Yours Truly,
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I say that partially because, knowing CSI's previous business practices, if they really did stumble upon a stash of copies in-between print runs while the game was scarce and in high demand, they wouldn't have put them on their website for a discounted prices; rather, they would've put them on their Amazon storefront for a higher-than-MSRP price ninja
 
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Steph Hodge
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game :p



Arle is now avail at CSI right now... there was a reprint.

Get on it!!!
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Steph Hodge
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game :p


Funny, literally at the exact same timestamp as my post, there was this reply in another thread reporting that it seems a reprint of Fields of Arle is in :whistle:

Re: Will there be a reprint?


Think this is an "act fast" situation? Will they sell out and then be hard to get again?



Yes, CSI sells out super dupre fast. prolly by tomorrow.

Good deal too for the game. I paid more. :)
 
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
We mainly play with two. I looked at LeHarve but it didn't seem like something we'd enjoy. I am considering Glass Roads though.


I haven't played Caverna or Fields of Arle yet, but I have tried Glass Road solo. It felt a bit light on strategy, compared to games like Le Havre and Agricola. Caverna and Arle are in the same league as those, so Glass Road can't really be compared to them.
 
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punkin312 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
There's also availability to consider.

Fields of Arle seems to be about to sell out of it's 1st print run, with no reprint announced yet (hopefully there will be one). So that one's either a buy now ASAP, or wait for a (hopefully not too long in the future) reprint, to avoid inflated Out-of-print prices.

Caverna, on the other hand, is readily available and in plenty supply.

Collecting board games is it's own game


Funny, literally at the exact same timestamp as my post, there was this reply in another thread reporting that it seems a reprint of Fields of Arle is in whistle

Re: Will there be a reprint?


Think this is an "act fast" situation? Will they sell out and then be hard to get again?



Yes, CSI sells out super dupre fast. prolly by tomorrow.

Good deal too for the game. I paid more.


Stock is everywhere : CSI 20+, MM 20+, Cardhaus 20+, BGW 18, you have time...
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Thomas
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I just ordered a copy to be safe. By time I play it they will be sold out again.
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I disagree about Glass Roads being light on strategy. It's a very different type of game though. It mostly about figuring out what cards your opponents are going to pick to maximize your work and minimize their work each round. Managing your landscaped areas and looking for good building combos seems almost secondary to the hand management game. The ever turning resource wheels adds an interesting wrinkle to your plans. My wife and I like it a lot, and play it often when it's just the two of us and we want a quick building game.

Glass Roads is different enough from Uwe's other games that it does not step on the experience of Agricola, La Havre or Caverna (which all feel much closer to each other). Glass Roads plays much quicker than even All Creatures Great and Small and requires little token management so it's nice to break out when you don't have a lot of time to play a game.

We don't like playing La Havre or Caverna two players and instead play Agricola when we want a longer building game. It seems to offer a more interesting experience still at the lower player counts (since it has the most random starting elements to overcome the less player interaction).

My wife and I have never played Fields. I'm hanging out on this board to see if it's something we might consider adding into the rotation.
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phillosmaster wrote:
I disagree about Glass Roads being light on strategy. It's a very different type of game though. It mostly about figuring out what cards your opponents are going to pick to maximize your work and minimize their work each round.


I have only played it once, and only solo, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I like role selection, and this is a new take on that, but it does introduce some uncertainty, because your guesses about what the others will choose can be wrong. It is a much more satisfying form of uncertainty than rolling a die, but it still introduces some luck. Although I haven't played this with others, I'm guessing it's like in Race for the Galaxy in this regard: You can be lucky or unlucky with the other players choices.

However, the main reason I think Glass Road is less strategic, is that there's a lot less room for improvement (i.e. building an engine). The only buildings which let you do this are the processing buildings (four available in any given turn). This means that the game will, as far as I can see, be mostly tactical, and much less about long-term strategy.

BTW, since I have already mentioned it I will say that I would recommend Race for the Galaxy before Glass Road. I think it is more strategic because it is much more of an engine-building game, and it plays as quickly. It also has a role selection mechanic, although a bit different from the one in Glass Road. However, Caverna and Fields of Arle can't really be compared to either Glass Road of RftG.
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mathew rynich
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I never found that to be the case, but maybe it's the way we play. We usually play Glass Road with the one extra round optional rule for a slightly longer game. It makes a world of difference in setting up combos and engines. Also we usually both take the Feudal Lord cards early to set up a building side board, which greatly expands your options.

In any event I feel a bit guilty like I'm stealing Field's thunder by trying to sell Glass Roads in it's forum.
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qzhdad wrote:
Arle is strictly 2er and Caverna plays better with more than two, if that helps. They are different enough that if you play with both two and with more, it wouldn't hurt to have both.

Actually, Arle supports 1 or 2 players.
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Played Arle three times now and my wife and I both agree that it plays better for two than Caverna. How well it will hold up to repeated play remains to be seen, but since we get some variability from the choice of starting animal and the random starting buildings for some building categories I suspect it will have some legs. I just wish there were more buildings to shuffle in each time. Holding out hope for an expansion.
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phillosmaster wrote:
Played Arle three times now and my wife and I both agree that it plays better for two than Caverna. How well it will hold up to repeated play remains to be seen, but since we get some variability from the choice of starting animal and the random starting buildings for some building categories I suspect it will have some legs. I just wish there were more buildings to shuffle in each time. Holding out hope for an expansion.


Im at 20+ plays of Arle and still going strong. I love it and could play it daily. :)
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Taking this back to the question posed in the first post, I actually think neither of these are the ideal "first" Uwe Rosenberg game. This is just my humble opinion, of course, but I think all board game hobbyists should go straight for Agricola and start there, just because it's such a crown jewel in his library.

As for the rest of the question, Caverna vs. Fields, I myself would prefer Fields. Caverna is an absolutely static game. Not including fan variants, the game is the same every single time you play. Fields doesn't have much variance, just a handful of buildings which are different, but even that small amount of variance adds quite a bit of depth. However, if you routinely play games at counts higher than two players, Caverna might be the better first investment. And I call it an 'investment' because it is NOT a cheap game... but neither is Fields.
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Thomas
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raika11182 wrote:
Taking this back to the question posed in the first post, I actually think neither of these are the ideal "first" Uwe Rosenberg game. This is just my humble opinion, of course, but I think all board game hobbyists should go straight for Agricola and start there, just because it's such a crown jewel in his library.

As for the rest of the question, Caverna vs. Fields, I myself would prefer Fields. Caverna is an absolutely static game. Not including fan variants, the game is the same every single time you play. Fields doesn't have much variance, just a handful of buildings which are different, but even that small amount of variance adds quite a bit of depth. However, if you routinely play games at counts higher than two players, Caverna might be the better first investment. And I call it an 'investment' because it is NOT a cheap game... but neither is Fields.


We mainly play with two as said earlier in the thread. I ended up getting Fields for $44 so that swayed my decision. I'm waiting for the new version of Agricola planned for next year before giving it a try.
 
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