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Magic: The Gathering – Arena of the Planeswalkers» Forums » Rules

Subject: Misdirection Questions rss

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Brad Minnigh
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Misdirection is a blue spell that reads "Move target face-up Enchant Squad or face-up Enchant Planeswalker to a new target".

If you use this card to move the black spell Dark Harvest ("Dark harvest can enchant only a unique squad you control. When you enchant a squad with Dark Harvest, destroy a creature in that squad. Enchanted squad gets +3 power), do you have to destroy a creature in your own squad, or are you just moving the enchantment? Since it says "move" on the blue spell I'm wondering if you just do that.

There seems to be people on both sides of the issue. I hope we can get some official answers to these questions soon.

This is from the fansite but I thought I'd post it here to get more input: http://planeswalker-arena.boards.net/thread/11/misdirection-...
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Josh S.
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gamjuven wrote:
Misdirection is a blue spell that reads "Move target face-up Enchant Squad or face-up Enchant Planeswalker to a new target".

If you use this card to move the black spell Dark Harvest ("Dark harvest can enchant only a unique squad you control. When you enchant a squad with Dark Harvest, destroy a creature in that squad. Enchanted squad gets +3 power), do you have to destroy a creature in your own squad, or are you just moving the enchantment? Since it says "move" on the blue spell I'm wondering if you just do that.

There seems to be people on both sides of the issue. I hope we can get some official answers to these questions soon.

This is from the fansite but I thought I'd post it here to get more input: http://planeswalker-arena.boards.net/thread/11/misdirection-...


I feel confident saying that you'd have to destroy a figure. When you are moving the enchantment, it's as though you are playing it on that squad, just from another squad, not your hand.

My point is, it doesn't matter that it was already played, you still have to do everything listed on the card when you play an enchantment. If you didn't destroy it, then it would be taking a selective approach to the card, which is clearly foolish. Not to mention that would make it grossly overpowered. DH adds three attack, which is quite the massive bonus, and having a squad with three full units with that perk without making the sacrifice is a bit much.

It seems clear: the card says to destroy a figure to get the three attack bonus. That card does NOT say that you have to kill a creature to move it from your hand. It leaves your hand FIRST, attach it, and THEN you do what is written on the card. So when you move it to one of Jace's Squads, you move it FIRST, attach it, and then do EVERYTHING on the card. Not just the good stuff.

That's my two cents anyway.
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James S.
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My friends and I have, as evidenced by my post in the linked thread, been following the card game rules in the absence of a thorough document for Arena.

As such:
303.4i If an effect attempts to attach an Aura on the battlefield to an object or player, that object or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the object or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.

Dark Harvest restricts what it can enchant (be attached to) to squad creatures "you control." Because you don't control Dark Harvest when you try to move it with Misdirection, you can't move it to any squad it couldn't legally have enchanted to begin with.

Thus, my group does not allow you to move Dark Harvest onto one of your squads.

We've also debated whether you can use it to effectively destroy a creature of Liliana's by moving it to another of HER squads. So far we've played it that you cannot, because Dark Harvest states "When YOU enchant..." and not "when a squad becomes enchanted by (card name)..." or something similar.



Obviously this is not necessarily correct, but it is, I think, the result of applying the card game rules logic.
 
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Brandon Nguyen
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If someone saw my older post before I deleted it, it was me realizing halfway through writing the post something about card texts and then realizing again later I was being redundant with that realization.

I agree with James's ruling, in that Misdirection does not change controllers of Dark Harvest. Or at least, that's not what Misdirection's direct text interpretation says.
 
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Josh S.
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jsanner2 wrote:
My friends and I have, as evidenced by my post in the linked thread, been following the card game rules in the absence of a thorough document for Arena.

As such:
303.4i If an effect attempts to attach an Aura on the battlefield to an object or player, that object or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the object or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.

Dark Harvest restricts what it can enchant (be attached to) to squad creatures "you control." Because you don't control Dark Harvest when you try to move it with Misdirection, you can't move it to any squad it couldn't legally have enchanted to begin with.

Thus, my group does not allow you to move Dark Harvest onto one of your squads.

We've also debated whether you can use it to effectively destroy a creature of Liliana's by moving it to another of HER squads. So far we've played it that you cannot, because Dark Harvest states "When YOU enchant..." and not "when a squad becomes enchanted by (card name)..." or something similar.



Obviously this is not necessarily correct, but it is, I think, the result of applying the card game rules logic.


I can see that, I guess! (DH being unable to be effected by Misdirect). Interesting, though I really think they need to make an FAQ or some similar clarification for this kind of stuff!
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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jsanner2 wrote:
My friends and I have, as evidenced by my post in the linked thread, been following the card game rules in the absence of a thorough document for Arena.

As such:
303.4i If an effect attempts to attach an Aura on the battlefield to an object or player, that object or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the object or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.

Dark Harvest restricts what it can enchant (be attached to) to squad creatures "you control." Because you don't control Dark Harvest when you try to move it with Misdirection, you can't move it to any squad it couldn't legally have enchanted to begin with.

Thus, my group does not allow you to move Dark Harvest onto one of your squads.

We've also debated whether you can use it to effectively destroy a creature of Liliana's by moving it to another of HER squads. So far we've played it that you cannot, because Dark Harvest states "When YOU enchant..." and not "when a squad becomes enchanted by (card name)..." or something similar.



Obviously this is not necessarily correct, but it is, I think, the result of applying the card game rules logic.

I believe you are over analyzing the the control aspect of the card, which i dont think should matter. When you misdirect something you would move it to a squad "You control". The reason it says "You" and not "The Black PW" is because "You" can change. "You control" is at that point Jace, not Liliana. I believe the wording of the card is so you cant play it on an opponent to insta kill a squad creature, possibly killing the last figure so they gain nothing from it. If it was color specific to black then you could only move it to another black squad.
I also believe the card would simply move over. From a thematic standpoint, the original squad creature was harvested to increase the defense of the enchanted unit. The sacrifice has already been made, Jace is simply directing the enchantment to his squad.

My interpretations are from the wording of the cards, not applying concepts from the Magic card game.
 
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Josh S.
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vazzucious wrote:
jsanner2 wrote:
My friends and I have, as evidenced by my post in the linked thread, been following the card game rules in the absence of a thorough document for Arena.

As such:
303.4i If an effect attempts to attach an Aura on the battlefield to an object or player, that object or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the object or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.

Dark Harvest restricts what it can enchant (be attached to) to squad creatures "you control." Because you don't control Dark Harvest when you try to move it with Misdirection, you can't move it to any squad it couldn't legally have enchanted to begin with.

Thus, my group does not allow you to move Dark Harvest onto one of your squads.

We've also debated whether you can use it to effectively destroy a creature of Liliana's by moving it to another of HER squads. So far we've played it that you cannot, because Dark Harvest states "When YOU enchant..." and not "when a squad becomes enchanted by (card name)..." or something similar.



Obviously this is not necessarily correct, but it is, I think, the result of applying the card game rules logic.

I believe you are over analyzing the the control aspect of the card, which i dont think should matter. When you misdirect something you would move it to a squad "You control". The reason it says "You" and not "The Black PW" is because "You" can change. "You control" is at that point Jace, not Liliana. I believe the wording of the card is so you cant play it on an opponent to insta kill a squad creature, possibly killing the last figure so they gain nothing from it. If it was color specific to black then you could only move it to another black squad.
I also believe the card would simply move over. From a thematic standpoint, the original squad creature was harvested to increase the defense of the enchanted unit. The sacrifice has already been made, Jace is simply directing the enchantment to his squad.

My interpretations are from the wording of the cards, not applying concepts from the Magic card game.


Regardless of thematic justification though, you are moving the card and then applying the WHOLE card to your squad. It's as if the card is being played on your squad. It doesn't make sense that you get to just apply the good parts. Not to mention, again, having a full squad, particularly a full ranged squad, with the massive +3 attack bonus would be far too overpowered.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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Legolas105 wrote:
vazzucious wrote:
jsanner2 wrote:
My friends and I have, as evidenced by my post in the linked thread, been following the card game rules in the absence of a thorough document for Arena.

As such:
303.4i If an effect attempts to attach an Aura on the battlefield to an object or player, that object or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the object or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.

Dark Harvest restricts what it can enchant (be attached to) to squad creatures "you control." Because you don't control Dark Harvest when you try to move it with Misdirection, you can't move it to any squad it couldn't legally have enchanted to begin with.

Thus, my group does not allow you to move Dark Harvest onto one of your squads.

We've also debated whether you can use it to effectively destroy a creature of Liliana's by moving it to another of HER squads. So far we've played it that you cannot, because Dark Harvest states "When YOU enchant..." and not "when a squad becomes enchanted by (card name)..." or something similar.



Obviously this is not necessarily correct, but it is, I think, the result of applying the card game rules logic.

I believe you are over analyzing the the control aspect of the card, which i dont think should matter. When you misdirect something you would move it to a squad "You control". The reason it says "You" and not "The Black PW" is because "You" can change. "You control" is at that point Jace, not Liliana. I believe the wording of the card is so you cant play it on an opponent to insta kill a squad creature, possibly killing the last figure so they gain nothing from it. If it was color specific to black then you could only move it to another black squad.
I also believe the card would simply move over. From a thematic standpoint, the original squad creature was harvested to increase the defense of the enchanted unit. The sacrifice has already been made, Jace is simply directing the enchantment to his squad.

My interpretations are from the wording of the cards, not applying concepts from the Magic card game.


Regardless of thematic justification though, you are moving the card and then applying the WHOLE card to your squad. It's as if the card is being played on your squad. It doesn't make sense that you get to just apply the good parts. Not to mention, again, having a full squad, particularly a full ranged squad, with the massive +3 attack bonus would be far too overpowered.

Re-reading the card text I think I agree. Since the penalty triggers when you enchant with it and not when you play it you would have to kill off a creature because technically you "enchant a squad with Dark Harvest" even though you did not play it.
 
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James S.
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vazzucious wrote:
jsanner2 wrote:
My friends and I have, as evidenced by my post in the linked thread, been following the card game rules in the absence of a thorough document for Arena.

As such:
303.4i If an effect attempts to attach an Aura on the battlefield to an object or player, that object or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the object or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.

Dark Harvest restricts what it can enchant (be attached to) to squad creatures "you control." Because you don't control Dark Harvest when you try to move it with Misdirection, you can't move it to any squad it couldn't legally have enchanted to begin with.

Thus, my group does not allow you to move Dark Harvest onto one of your squads.

We've also debated whether you can use it to effectively destroy a creature of Liliana's by moving it to another of HER squads. So far we've played it that you cannot, because Dark Harvest states "When YOU enchant..." and not "when a squad becomes enchanted by (card name)..." or something similar.



Obviously this is not necessarily correct, but it is, I think, the result of applying the card game rules logic.

I believe you are over analyzing the the control aspect of the card, which i dont think should matter. When you misdirect something you would move it to a squad "You control". The reason it says "You" and not "The Black PW" is because "You" can change. "You control" is at that point Jace, not Liliana. I believe the wording of the card is so you cant play it on an opponent to insta kill a squad creature, possibly killing the last figure so they gain nothing from it. If it was color specific to black then you could only move it to another black squad.
I also believe the card would simply move over. From a thematic standpoint, the original squad creature was harvested to increase the defense of the enchanted unit. The sacrifice has already been made, Jace is simply directing the enchantment to his squad.

My interpretations are from the wording of the cards, not applying concepts from the Magic card game.



Like I said, I think that interpretations other than mine are definitely fair and possible more correct. I'm just telling you what worked best in my playgroup, as we are all familiar with MtG rules, that logic worked best for us.


Regardless, I really think that slightly more effort could have been put into the card design to eliminate these sorts of questions. It isn't THAT hard to predict interactions among a pool of 60 cards, and a lot of cards would benefit from one or two lines more of text.
 
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Brad Minnigh
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I got an official answer from hasbro. This was my initial question:

"If you use this card [Misdirection] to move the black spell Dark Harvest ("Dark harvest can enchant only a unique squad you control. When you enchant a squad with Dark Harvest, destroy a creature in that squad. Enchanted squad gets +3 power), do you have to destroy a creature in your own squad, or are you just moving the enchantment? Since it says "move" on the blue spell I'm wondering if you just do that."

Response By Email (Mike) (07/22/2015 03:19 PM)
Hi Brad,

"Thank you for contacting Hasbro regarding Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers.

I'm pleased to reply. In regards to playing your blue Misdirection spell against the black Dark Harvest spell, you would just move the enchantment, as instructed in the blue spell.

This is a very new game, so there are no current plans for official tournaments and no information regard rule changes for tournament play.

Again, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.

I hope you have a fun day!
 
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James S.
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That...that is just a joke of an official response. Yikes.

That's like replying to the question "How does this work?" with "Yes."
 
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Josh S.
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gamjuven wrote:
I got an official answer from hasbro. This was my initial question:

"If you use this card [Misdirection] to move the black spell Dark Harvest ("Dark harvest can enchant only a unique squad you control. When you enchant a squad with Dark Harvest, destroy a creature in that squad. Enchanted squad gets +3 power), do you have to destroy a creature in your own squad, or are you just moving the enchantment? Since it says "move" on the blue spell I'm wondering if you just do that."

Response By Email (Mike) (07/22/2015 03:19 PM)
Hi Brad,

"Thank you for contacting Hasbro regarding Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers.

I'm pleased to reply. In regards to playing your blue Misdirection spell against the black Dark Harvest spell, you would just move the enchantment, as instructed in the blue spell.

This is a very new game, so there are no current plans for official tournaments and no information regard rule changes for tournament play.

Again, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.

I hope you have a fun day!




jsanner2 wrote:
That...that is just a joke of an official response. Yikes.

That's like replying to the question "How does this work?" with "Yes."



I don't like this either. If the answer is move without destroying, this would be a grossly overpowered situation, and it requires only looking at the good part of the cards, not the whole thing. Not really logical, IMO.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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jsanner2 wrote:
Regardless, I really think that slightly more effort could have been put into the card design to eliminate these sorts of questions. It isn't THAT hard to predict interactions among a pool of 60 cards, and a lot of cards would benefit from one or two lines more of text.

Completely agree.
 
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