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Legendary: Guardians of the Galaxy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Double Supremor rss

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Dr Krebsy

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Supremor's text says
Quote:
Ambush: Supremor and the Mastermind each gain a Shard.


The scenario is:
Turn 1 - Play a villain card. It's Supremor. Put one shard on the card and one on the MM.
Turn 2 - Play the next villain card. It is also Supremor. Put another shard on the MM and one on Supremor #2.

But does the first Supremor also get another shard?
 
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Darth Ed
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MKrebs wrote:
But does the first Supremor also get another shard?

Yes, I think so. With instructions like this, you go by the card's title, and both cards have the title Supremor.
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David A
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I was thinking the same thing as Darth Ed
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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Maybe I played to much Magic: The Gathering, but I (and many other people I know) have been conditioned that when a card mentions itself by name it means only the card itself, and not duplicates or clones thereof.

compare:
as printed wrote:
Ambush: Supremor and the Mastermind each gain a Shard.

with
Quote:
Ambush: Each Supremor and the Mastermind gains a Shard.

or
Quote:
Ambush: Every Supremor and the Mastermind gains a Shard.

or
Quote:
Ambush: Supremor and the Mastermind each gain a Shard for each Supremor in the city.

although it could haven been worded like this to clear of self + mastermind:
Quote:
Ambush: This Supremor and the Mastermind both gain a Shard.


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Robert Clevidence
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yaverot wrote:
Maybe I played to much Magic: The Gathering, but I (and many other people I know) have been conditioned that when a card mentions itself by name it means only the card itself, and not duplicates or clones thereof.


I was thinking that this was mentioned in the Legendary FAQ and was about to post yesterday when I realized that I was probably thinking of Netrunner. I'm honestly surprised this question hasn't come up before now.
 
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Jacovis
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My understanding is the same as yaverot, fwiw.

Cheers,
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Bert McCloud
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Jacovis wrote:
My understanding is the same as yaverot, fwiw.

Cheers,


Since there's disagreement on the rules I feel like I should throw in that I agree with this. If a card refers to it's own name I think it should only be referring to its self and not any other cards with the same name. This is possibly also MTG conditioning coming through but it does make more sense to me this way.
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Jacob Stick
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Dr Krebsy

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This is a dilemma. I see both Darth Ed and Jacovis as experts at this game. It's unsettling when you guys disagree. lol

I played it that it only referred to itself based on when a card wants to reference other cards like it, Devon has gone out of his way to say so.

But is there a line from the rules someplace about cards that mention a card by name? I imagine that would be where they would clarify something like this.
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David A
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MKrebs wrote:
This is a dilemma. I see both Darth Ed and Jacovis as experts at this game. It's unsettling when you guys disagree. lol

LOL!! I wholeheartedly agree!
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Dave Roy
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MKrebs wrote:
This is a dilemma. I see both Darth Ed and Jacovis as experts at this game. It's unsettling when you guys disagree. lol



Waahhhhhh!!! Mommy and Daddy are fighting!!!!

I do have to say that I agree, though. I'm not sure which way I'd play this now.
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Darth Ed
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Thud105 wrote:
MKrebs wrote:
This is a dilemma. I see both Darth Ed and Jacovis as experts at this game. It's unsettling when you guys disagree. lol

LOL!! I wholeheartedly agree!

I'm not really in Jacovis' league when it comes to the rules. Every time my interpretation and Javovis' interpretation have disagreed, it's turned out that he's been correct and I've been wrong. So, when in doubt, go with Jacovis, not me, folks! He's the best there is at what he does. Maybe someday the student will surpass the master, but that day has not yet come.

I'll add that Devin Low worked for years on Magic: The Gathering cards, so I think it's probably valid to look at how MTG handles a similar rules issue whenever there is doubt. (Go, yaverot!) I've never played MTG, so I don't have years of MTG rules training under my belt.
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Jacovis
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DarthEd wrote:
Thud105 wrote:
MKrebs wrote:
This is a dilemma. I see both Darth Ed and Jacovis as experts at this game. It's unsettling when you guys disagree. lol

LOL!! I wholeheartedly agree!

I'm not really in Jacovis' league when it comes to the rules. Every time my interpretation and Javovis' interpretation have disagreed, it's turned out that he's been correct and I've been wrong. So, when in doubt, go with Jacovis, not me, folks! He's the best there is at what he does. Maybe someday the student will surpass the master, but that day has not yet come.

I'll add that Devin Low worked for years on Magic: The Gathering cards, so I think it's probably valid to look at how MTG handles a similar rules issue whenever there is doubt. (Go, yaverot!) I've never played MTG, so I don't have years of MTG rules training under my belt.


Ed is definitely an authority, and I apologize for being AWOL so much lately. I'm working on that! I rarely disagree with Ed on these, so I felt I should express my opinion here.

At any rate, Ed makes a great point: Devin's Magic experience is something I have always taken into account when interpreting the rules.

Game on everyone. Excelsior!
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Dr Krebsy

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Whew! Glad we got that resolved then. And yes, Jacovis is the master.

So, Supremor (and similar cards) when referring to its own card name is to be interpreted as referring to that one card only and not to any other copies with the same card name. Any exception to this will be explicit in the text of the card by using the words "each" or "every".
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Thematically speaking, I think that every time Supremor enters the city, he is doing something to gather more power and also bolster the mastermind. He doesn't do it at any other time -- it's something that he can only do when he first shows up. If there is already another Supremor card in the city, I think that just represents himself at a different time period.

But I use that to justify my interpretation that if Supremor enters the city a second time, he can't really do anything to make his past self stronger.

I know, that's pretty abstract.
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Darth Ed
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Honestly, I wish Villain Groups didn't include the same Villain on multiple cards. I don't mind it for Henchmen or generic Villains like HYDRA's Endless Armies, but it kind of breaks the theme whenever I see two of the same Villain character in the City in different locations at the same time. Fortunately, it doesn't happen all that often.

I know someone came up with a variant in which you stacked repeat Villains on top of each other and they got +3 power or something like that. I'm not one to play variants, but that sounded cool.
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James Drury
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DarthEd wrote:
Honestly, I wish Villain Groups didn't include the same Villain on multiple cards. I don't mind it for Henchmen or generic Villains like HYDRA's Endless Armies, but it kind of breaks the theme whenever I see two of the same Villain character in the City in different locations at the same time. Fortunately, it doesn't happen all that often.

I know someone came up with a variant in which you stacked repeat Villains on top of each other and they got +3 power or something like that. I'm not one to play variants, but that sounded cool.


I played a 3p game once and the Game Host also didn't like having multiples of the same villain. His solution was to reduce the Villain groups to 4 cards and including 6 Villain groups rather than 3.

As far as the card count went, it worked out. Gameplay was relatively ok, I mean a villain is a villain. But the game as a whole felt a little awkward. Felt like every villain from every comic ever was coming after us lol.

Personally, I agree with you that there needs to be a solution to the multiple villains, but I do not like my friend's solution.
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