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Subject: Any games on the Nato vs Warsaw Pact topic? rss

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Sylvain Martel
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Any good and playable wargame made about an hypothetical conflict btw Nato and Warsaw Pact forces?

In the early '90 I played alot of Red Lightning of the PC and quite liked it back then. The game simulated an invasion of Europe by Russia and the reply from NATO forces. Wondering if a boardgame ever covered the same topic.
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Bart de Groot
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NATO: The Next War in Europe
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Etien
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SOLITAIRE
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NATO: Operational Combat in Europe in the 1970's
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Lance McMillan
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Red Storm Rising
Warsaw Pact
NATO: Operational Combat in Europe in the 1970's
The Third World War
Group of Soviet Forces Germany
Red Tide West
The Next War
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Jim McNaughton
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+1 The Third World War Series
The Third World War
Southern Front
Arctic Front
Persian Gulf: Battle for the Middle East

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Sylvain Martel
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Thanks, gonna take a look over all those this weekend
 
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Andrew N
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There's also the World at War Series. It's a little heavy on the "wristage" (lots of dice rolling), but I think it's a pretty good platoon-level tactical system.
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mochara
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Lots of choices here
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Marcus
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Games at a lower level than Red Lightning (Divisions?/25 km hexes/12hrs per turn) that may be worth a look:

Drive on Frankfurt
Air & Armor
Tac Air

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dave bcs
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The Next War

I think this is the best game on the topic. For something less huge I would suggest:

Fulda Gap
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Roger Hobden
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NATO Division Commander

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Cityfight: Modern Combat in the Urban Environment

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Colin Raitt
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I prefer Fulda Gap over The Next War. Its a slicker and more exciting. SAMs are assumed to be held in the same position as corps artillery. This reduces the number of non combat units whilst having pretty much the same effect. Brigades can't be combined into divisions reducing counter numbers by another 25%. Having a movement phase before and after combat and overruns during movement triples the probability of breakthroughs every turn. Both are good for attack helicopters, air power, tac nukes, chem war.

I like Fifth Corps and Hof Gap too.
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Sean McCormick
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This is a subject that I would love to see some modern designs depict--FAB strikes me as perfect, but there are a number of systems that would handle it well. I know MMP is planning something, but it's a monster game and thus well beyond my time/space requirements.
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Bruce Jurin
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Red Star white star

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8725/red-star-white-star
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Breunor wrote:

And its successor MechWar '77
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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We could also fight this war at sea with Sixth Fleet, 2nd Fleet, etc., or in the air with Foxbat & Phantom.
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Kent Reuber
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For simple games, try:

Corps Command: Dawn's Early Light – Red Hammer (grand-tactical)
The Red Storm (operational)
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Eric Walters
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A lot of the games on this list were produced during the Cold War (but admittedly not all of them). They represent the thinking of their time and are useful for that reason.

But it might be worth holding out for relatively recent treatments. Much depends on what you are looking for. Strategic games? Operational/campaign games? Tactical games? What domain--air, land, or sea?

Would help us provide you compelling reasons for our recommendations.

What appeals to you about this topic most?
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Sylvain Martel
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ericmwalters wrote:
A lot of the games on this list were produced during the Cold War (but admittedly not all of them). They represent the thinking of their time and are useful for that reason.

But it might be worth holding out for relatively recent treatments. Much depends on what you are looking for. Strategic games? Operational/campaign games? Tactical games? What domain--air, land, or sea?

Would help us provide you compelling reasons for our recommendations.

What appeals to you about this topic most?


Well, probably strategic/operational since that's what the scope Red Lightning had. As for the domain, a strategic game would cover most of those I'd think. Land + air support is probably what an operational one would cover.
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Roger Hobden
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Seapower & the State is a very cool WWIII game that covers the whole world.
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Eric Lai
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Maccyn wrote:


I have played almost all the games so far listed on this page as this is my favorite what-if war scenario.

I second these, they are my favorite treatment of the topic and is one of my favorite games of all time. The story the game builds is tantalizing.

The buildup in the middle east tensions explodes into direct conflict between the Warsaw Pact and NATO as the Soviets enter the conflict directly, moving armies into Syria and Iraq. Seeing that their only opportunity to win a war, knowing that their supplies will only last a couple of months, they preemptively invade eastern Europe.

You will be faced with options like should they move through Yugoslavia and Italy into the Southern flank of France and West Germany, pushing those countries to the NATO camp, How much air support to send to Arctic where one or two units will make a world of difference, but may hamper your main attack into Europe. A race to reach US prepared ammo-dumps in Belgium and France, A fight for the oil fields in the Middle East with many different factions fighting over it, those factions side differently with each new game depending on how the war started (!!!!). The option to escalate the war to nuclear, first tactical and strategic and having rules that actually make sense and work in both situations. It has the best strategic air rules of any game I have ever seen at this scale, it is super tight and your decisions are balanced on a fine edge.

Simply Sublime.
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JP Laurio
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As an old RPGer, I just have to mention this classic as well:

Twilight: 2000
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Ben Bosmans
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Tac Air is probably the best Air Land Battle simulator over Germany ever created.

It was made by Gary C. Morgan a US Colonel pilote and developped by S. Craig Taylor in 1987,

Unfortunately both gentlemen passed away just over a year ago, so sad, but I think the game created an incredible insight into the mechanics of the Air Land Battle of this period.

All came into play in an operational overview: airplanes, helicopters, mobile artillery, combat forces, electronic warfare, logistics, HQ's all on a 1 nautical mile scale hex system with a very accurate military structure over a very detailed map of crucial parts of Germany (mounted mapboard btw).



It impressed us so much that we used the mechanics to make our own Gulf War sims before the 100 days War against Iraq was launched. So actually we could witness how much more superior this kind of warfare was vs the traditional armored combat of WW2 or Korea.

I guess most of it would still apply but with drones and even more EW tools.

Compared to many present day and older published wargames, this game made by an active military officer and used within the Air Force stood miles above to what many consider wargames on BGG.


And yep, even this rather hardcore military game was published by the good old AH in what probably were its high days of publishing: the mid/late 80's of AH/VG with such young designers rising as Mark Herman and John Butterfield.

Tac Air was a masterpiece.
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Kev.
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polate wrote:
I prefer Fulda Gap over The Next War. Its a slicker and more exciting. SAMs are assumed to be held in the same position as corps artillery. This reduces the number of non combat units whilst having pretty much the same effect. Brigades can't be combined into divisions reducing counter numbers by another 25%. Having a movement phase before and after combat and overruns during movement triples the probability of breakthroughs every turn. Both are good for attack helicopters, air power, tac nukes, chem war.

I like Fifth Corps and Hof Gap too.
fulda is just victory in west system tweaked. A bit of a thoughtless effort. Different scale and design intent to next war.
Agree Fifth Corp is a great system.
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Kev.
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Ben_Bos wrote:


Tac Air is probably the best Air Land Battle simulator over Germany ever created.

It was made by Gary C. Morgan a US Colonel pilote and developped by S. Craig Taylor in 1987,

Unfortunately both gentlemen passed away just over a year ago, so sad, but I think the game created an incredible insight into the mechanics of the Air Land Battle of this period.

All came into play in an operational overview: airplanes, helicopters, mobile artillery, combat forces, electronic warfare, logistics, HQ's all on a 1 nautical mile scale hex system with a very accurate military structure over a very detailed map of crucial parts of Germany (mounted mapboard btw).



It impressed us so much that we used the mechanics to make our own Gulf War sims before the 100 days War against Iraq was launched. So actually we could witness how much more superior this kind of warfare was vs the traditional armored combat of WW2 or Korea.

I guess most of it would still apply but with drones and even more EW tools.

Compared to many present day and older published wargames, this game made by an active military officer and used within the Air Force stood miles above to what many consider wargames on BGG.


And yep, even this rather hardcore military game was published by the good old AH in what probably were its high days of publishing: the mid/late 80's of AH/VG with such young designers rising as Mark Herman and John Butterfield.

Tac Air was a masterpiece.

Someone should have modelled end game strategic impact for Gulf 1. Doah.
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