Jim Montanus
United States
Twin Falls
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you!
2 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ares, would you please send somebody over to put a new roof on my house? It would be cool if they'd mow the lawn while they're here.
37 
 Thumb up
0.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Montanus
United States
Twin Falls
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sphere wrote:
Ares, would you please send somebody over to put a new roof on my house? It would be cool if they'd mow the lawn while they're here.


Sure, that would be great. But since I don't have opponents available to play War of the Ring, I'd prefer solo rules.
10 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jimmontanus wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Ares, would you please send somebody over to put a new roof on my house? It would be cool if they'd mow the lawn while they're here.


Sure, that would be great. But since I don't have opponents available to play War of the Ring, I'd prefer solo rules.

I understand you'd like them, but Ares went into great detail describing exactly what would come with the game and solo rules weren't on the list.

I'm seeing multiple threads popping up with requests that they include this that or the other wishlist item, but at this point with 3/4 of the print run already sold I can't understand what people are thinking.

Solo rules would require (at minimum) design work, playtesting, layout and printing, and none of that went into their calculations when arriving at a selling price. If Ares were to develop solo rules, they'd have to be paid for it; they are a business after all. Even if it were possible, it would add considerable delay to the release.

Rafamir has made some suggestions for solo play, and you could find others as well if you browse the variants folders for the various versions. But Ares adding an official solo variant to the 2nd edition rulebook in the upcoming edition? I don't think so.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Bauman
United States
Santa Cruz
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just play two-fisted. Problem solved.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Bauer
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sphere wrote:

I'm seeing multiple threads popping up with requests that they include this that or the other wishlist item, but at this point with 3/4 of the print run already sold I can't understand what people are thinking.


Maybe it's because they are mostly created by the same user
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sphere wrote:
It would be cool if they'd mow the lawn while they're here.


Are you kidding? Wouldn't it be, like: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Xookliba wrote:
Sphere wrote:
It would be cool if they'd mow the lawn while they're here.


Are you kidding? Wouldn't it be, like: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

25 
 Thumb up
2.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Montanus
United States
Twin Falls
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
In all three cases my posts were polite requests to Ares to consider aspects of the design that might be otherwise overlooked. While I do not expect Ares to change the design based on these posts, there is a chance that they would be swayed to include a feature they were already considering.

I'm surprised some think it unreasonable to respextfully alert Ares to feedback I have as a CE owner.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Courageous
msg tools
Excellent request which I wholeheartedly second.
If possible why not.
I play the game solo often and it works very well -having said that proper solo rules will be welcome and I'm sure broaden the appeal. Not all friends and family members may be in an LOTR mood or willing to commit to learning the rules and investing the time when one is in the mood.

So - thanks for asking, no harm, good ask.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Bauman
United States
Santa Cruz
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jimmontanus wrote:
In all three cases my posts were polite requests to Ares to consider aspects of the design that might be otherwise overlooked. While I do not expect Ares to change the design based on these posts, there is a chance that they would be swayed to include a feature they were already considering.

I'm surprised some think it unreasonable to respextfully alert Ares to feedback I have as a CE owner.


One thread would have been sufficient.
10 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I certainly, think the tone of the request is not a problem at all, I'm going to point out that perhaps the majority of players are not in fact interested in this sort of a thing.

Personally, I would much rather see them spend their precious time in development of new ideas, rather than to pursue something with arguably dubious merit. With the upcoming expansions, they have more than enough things to occupy their design time, I'd rather not see them sidetracked from that goal, time not being an infinite resource.

A decent solo variant would require the development of a fairly elaborate bot, something akin to what Mark Herman came up with for Empire of the Sun or Fire in the Lake. It's going to be quite a bit more involved than the one for Labyrinth, for example. Otherwise it's just going to amount to pushing around some pieces without any real gaming challenge. Who wants that?

This game is a near perfect two-player game, and it really was meant to be played that way. I'd be really shocked if there were a significant number of WotR players that would be interested in playing the game solo, but I could be wrong. You don't see a significant amount of chatter about it in the forum, and let's face it, this is not really a new release. We are going on 10 years here. It's more of a learning tool than anything else, and there already exist a lot of resources to learn the system, which is not all that hard, to be honest.

So, yes, I'm kind of with Sphere. It might be nice, but I am way more interested in the expansions than a project like a solo variant. Maybe after they get through the more interesting ideas, but certainly not by the time the AR ships. Not to mention the delay it would cause in a time frame that is already a year out, and most likely more, is unacceptable. I don't want to wait around for something like that to be developed before the AR ships. And, as Sphere already stated, Rafamir already has a lot of solo and teaching aids he has published, and put a lot of effort into. What is wrong with those?

I may not be a CE owner, and I'm not sure why that would matter anyway, but that's the opinion of a player of 10 or so years who has been pretty vocal about this game for most of that time.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jimmontanus wrote:
In all three cases my posts were polite requests to Ares to consider aspects of the design that might be otherwise overlooked. While I do not expect Ares to change the design based on these posts, there is a chance that they would be swayed to include a feature they were already considering.

I'm surprised some think it unreasonable to respextfully alert Ares to feedback I have as a CE owner.


Why did you buy it if you have so many issues?
Why not just make your own solo rules?
Why not just be spoon fed?
ect?
4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Montanus
United States
Twin Falls
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Xookliba wrote:
I may not be a CE owner, and I'm not sure why that would matter anyway,...


Being a CE owner doesn't entitle me in any way - it just makes me aware of some of the packaging issues Ares previously had that a similar anniversary release might experience. And I understand that Ares might have better things to do with their development effort than work on solo rules. But I thought they might already have already done such development, so I thought I would ask.

Issues with the game? No, I think the game is wonderful.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh Buchanan
msg tools
Xookliba wrote:
While I certainly, think the tone of the request is not a problem at all, I'm going to point out that perhaps the majority of players are not in fact interested in this sort of a thing.

Personally, I would much rather see them spend their precious time in development of new ideas, rather than to pursue something with arguably dubious merit. With the upcoming expansions, they have more than enough things to occupy their design time, I'd rather not see them sidetracked from that goal, time not being an infinite resource.

A decent solo variant would require the development of a fairly elaborate bot, something akin to what Mark Herman came up with for Empire of the Sun or Fire in the Lake. It's going to be quite a bit more involved than the one for Labyrinth, for example. Otherwise it's just going to amount to pushing around some pieces without any real gaming challenge. Who wants that?

This game is a near perfect two-player game, and it really was meant to be played that way. I'd be really shocked if there were a significant number of WotR players that would be interested in playing the game solo, but I could be wrong. You don't see a significant amount of chatter about it in the forum, and let's face it, this is not really a new release. We are going on 10 years here. It's more of a learning tool than anything else, and there already exist a lot of resources to learn the system, which is not all that hard, to be honest.

So, yes, I'm kind of with Sphere. It might be nice, but I am way more interested in the expansions than a project like a solo variant. Maybe after they get through the more interesting ideas, but certainly not by the time the AR ships. Not to mention the delay it would cause in a time frame that is already a year out, and most likely more, is unacceptable. I don't want to wait around for something like that to be developed before the AR ships. And, as Sphere already stated, Rafamir already has a lot of solo and teaching aids he has published, and put a lot of effort into. What is wrong with those?

I may not be a CE owner, and I'm not sure why that would matter anyway, but that's the opinion of a player of 10 or so years who has been pretty vocal about this game for most of that time.


I have one issue with these statements. You assume that WotR players are more or less indifferent to a solo way of playing. That's probably true. The problem is that you are not considering the, in my opinion, many players who have yet to buy it because you cannot play solo.

Like it or not solitaire tabletop gaming is here to stay. Those of us who live in small rural areas often have literally no one outside of family to play with. I know for a fact they would sell between 5-10 copies if there were solo rules.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian Busch

Broomfield
Colorado
msg tools
mb
Frohike wrote:
jimmontanus wrote:
In all three cases my posts were polite requests to Ares to consider aspects of the design that might be otherwise overlooked. While I do not expect Ares to change the design based on these posts, there is a chance that they would be swayed to include a feature they were already considering.

I'm surprised some think it unreasonable to respextfully alert Ares to feedback I have as a CE owner.


One thread would have been sufficient.

I have no issue with someone wanting to make requests or wishlists but seriously, make one thread instead of choking up the forum with each individual item you hope happens.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Montanus
United States
Twin Falls
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Frohike wrote:
space monkey mafia wrote:
One thread would have been sufficient.

I have no issue with someone wanting to make requests or wishlists but seriously, make one thread instead of choking up the forum with each individual item you hope happens.


I thought a separate thread for each topic would allow the pros and cons of each topic to be discussed independently (which I think they have). My apologies if this seemed newbish or spammy.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
NinjaGigolo wrote:
Xookliba wrote:
While I certainly, think the tone of the request is not a problem at all, I'm going to point out that perhaps the majority of players are not in fact interested in this sort of a thing.

-snip-


I have one issue with these statements. You assume that WotR players are more or less indifferent to a solo way of playing. That's probably true. The problem is that you are not considering the, in my opinion, many players who have yet to buy it because you cannot play solo.

Like it or not solitaire tabletop gaming is here to stay. Those of us who live in small rural areas often have literally no one outside of family to play with. I know for a fact they would sell between 5-10 copies if there were solo rules.


I am quite sure that is true. Again, I do not think that the sentiments being voiced in this thread are actually being read very carefully. It would be nice to have some solo rules. I never claimed the contrary at any time, and if I did, please show me where.

My real issue with this is one of time, as I already clearly stated. Many players, including both Sphere and Rafamir elsewhere as well as myself and many, many others, have rightly commented that a decent solo version of the game is not a light undertaking. It is a serious project, requiring serious time investment from the designer. And not only them, but the excellent playtesting pool which has been carefully developed over the last decade or so. These are the people to thank in large part for the tightly balanced design we have now.

This is time taken away from their current, much more exciting and widely anticipated (and nearing completion by the sound of it) projects. Later? Yes, certainly. But before the AR is released? I should sincerely hope not.

Furthermore, as has already been suggested by several users, there already exists a workable set of solo/coop rules, as well as a simpler suggestion for incorporation of solo play into the existing game. What is wrong with using these tools in the meantime? They are quite good ideas. Please also note that there is a link there in the comments for an ongoing discussion of solo variants for WotR.

And if the argument is learning tools, I would repeat that Rafamir has developed quite a good one. There are also videos and session reports that serve this purpose.

And finally, as is the case with many wargames or wargame-like substances, it is a very common experience to have no close by opponents. I really do feel for you on this topic, it is a actual problem that has plagued this genre for decades. However, there is an extremely large and thriving online gaming community, including ladder competitions, that is well established and allows you to find opponents to play online easily. I would suggest you visit the Guild and check it out. It may be just what you need. Because, as I already said many times, this is a near perfect two-player game and it was meant to be played that way, not solo. It cannot shine solo, not nearly as it does when played competitively. Not even a little.

Sorry, I just don't think you are hearing what we are saying. And also, not to be harsh, but I think some simply have not done enough research on the topic to see that quite a lot has indeed been done and said about this in the past. A lot of what you might find frustrating has been addressed long before now. But I take no issue with Ares spending time on this in the future. After they finish Expansions for us, that is.

I hope you take these suggestions in the helpful nature in which they were intended, and not as criticism of your POV. This game is just too good to allow people to have dissatisfaction with any aspect of it. Not if users can help, that is. And a lot of folks have put in a lot of effort to do such.
9 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
King in Green
Japan
flag msg tools
mb
The java client is easy to use and most players are very happy to take the time to show new players the ropes. I have even been known to lose to them while I worry about whether I've explained everything properly...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Montanus
United States
Twin Falls
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mlinhardt73 wrote:
jimmontanus wrote:
In all three cases my posts were polite requests to Ares to consider aspects of the design that might be otherwise overlooked. While I do not expect Ares to change the design based on these posts, there is a chance that they would be swayed to include a feature they were already considering.

I'm surprised some think it unreasonable to respextfully alert Ares to feedback I have as a CE owner.


I feel like requests of this nature would better be served by contacting Ares directly rather than posting them here. I'm not entirely certain what the point of posting here is, if it's not to summon discussion or debate.


By posting it here it allows others to voice their opinion, giving Ares a greater sense of whether the issue should be considered or dismissed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gabriel Alonso
United States
Miami
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I vote to dismiss.

Thank you
9 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Poulter
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
While I am not particularly interested in a solo variant, I would love to see an official app made with comprehensive AI to play against.

However, unlike many board games this one has so many decision points a challenging AI would be extremely difficult to produce.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Courageous
msg tools
Let's keep this debate alive for a bit and encourage others to get into this
Love the game, bar none - my favorite all time
Having said that like many of you it's difficult to get a wider base to commit
Long playing time, lots of rules, have to love LOTR etc - our strengths are our weaknesses - don't get me wrong, part of the immersive experience is thanks to all of that. Nay, not part - in large measure
But guys so what if we can have a solo variant of even some lighter intro scenarios
Part of growing out love is inclusiveness
This is not to argue the some who say yay and some (or many) who say may
The reason this game is exceptional is the love and reverence of the designers and players and if we can share why not
So I'd love every single attempt to make it more accessible and get it more play time: solo is one suggestion from OP


Why not? That's not a question: good things grow.

I love this game irrespective - and if someone asks for a new way to enjoy I say yay, good on you, thank you for the ask. I've got a few tips if you do t get what you want but thank you for asking.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Bauman
United States
Santa Cruz
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the debate has somewhat run its course starting with an incorrect assumption that this was being run like a crowdsourced/kickstarter product, where design was still in flux, nothing had been prepped for manufacture, and sufficiently vocal enclaves of players could have a say in tweaks or gameplay additions. There have been a lot of (questionably implemented) solo mode stretch goals in recent games, so I can see where that assumption took hold.

My personal opinion on the matter: fans are free to design variants, etc, but I don't think they should expect an established, professional design of this caliber to start integrating that sort of material into its fabric. It needs that stuff as much as Tolkien's work needs fan fiction to be included in it's appendices. There are other venues for it and I would rather not see it cluttering up the official version of the design.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raf B
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
See the Facebook WotR group page for worthy auto-play rules for the Free Peoples that allow solo play as Shadow. Looks promising.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.