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Subject: Expansion live on Kickstarter !! rss

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Rich Dodgin
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The 'Beyond the Veil' expansion is now live on Kickstarter -

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dvgames/the-cards-of-ct...

I was involved in the playtesting, and this expansion does a fantastic job of adding to the base game while retaining everything that made the original release such a great game.

From the Kickstarter page -

Beyond The Veil expands on the core game and gives you more of everything. More Investigators. More Minions. More Horrors. More Followers. More Items. More Gates. And a New Cult Board.

This expansion also adds a 5th Cult Board for Nyarlathotep!

Additional Minions, Horrors, and Gates are added for each Cult. This gives each Cult a different feel. Cthulhu excels at bringing Horrors into play, Nyarlathotep has an abundance of Gates, and so on.

Beyond The Veil also introduces 2 new types of cards: Investigations and Cult Powers!

Investigation cards are side adventures your Investigator and Followers can track down in order to gain valuable advantages needed to save the world. However, each Investigation has an element of danger and a harsh consequence if failed!

Cult Power cards give each Cult its own feel and mechanical abilities
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Ian Richard
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*Edit*
I was mistaken when I posted this. The game is in the clear annd the kickstarter is good to go.

*Old*
Ummm... well... this is awkward. DVG actually doesn't have the rights to print the expansion. I've been pretty adamant about not signing the offers they sent me because I haven't felt they were very fair.

It's entirely possible things will resolve smoothly because we are still in talks, but you guys have been good to me and need you guys to know ALL the risks involved.

Just want you all to be careful on this for now.

I'll let you know as soon as I have something more solid.

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Tristan Hall
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McTeddy wrote:
Ummm... well... this is awkward. DVG actually doesn't have the rights to print the expansion. I've been pretty adamant about not signing the offers they sent me because I haven't felt they were very fair.

It's entirely possible things will resolve smoothly because we are still in talks, but you guys have been good to me and need you guys to know ALL the risks involved.

Just want you all to be careful on this for now.

I'll let you know as soon as I have something more solid.



Eek - hope you get this sorted Ian.
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Andrew Kluessendorf
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As someone who was burned in the Up Front re-print fiasco due to not having the rights secured before the Kickstarter went live, I think I will be taking a wait-and-see approach to this thread before I consider Kickstarting this.
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William Crispin
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Getaklue wrote:

As someone who was burned in the Up Front re-print fiasco due to not having the rights secured before the Kickstarter went live, I think I will be taking a wait-and-see approach to this thread before I consider Kickstarting this.


You are the second person in a couple of days to post that. Of all the issues with Valley Games and Upfront, I am not aware there was were any verified issues with the rights to Upfront.
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That is a bit weird. I already pledged but might cancel it depending on what happens.

Hopefully everything gets resolved peacefully. I liked the base game and have been looking forward to the expansion since it was announced.
 
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Andrew Kluessendorf
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Yes, I'm not a lawyer and you are probably right that it was not technically a rights issue. If I remember correctly, Phil Sauer, the creator of Up Front, had loaned Valley / Radiant (whatever) money - both real money and money that he was to be paid for the rights to re-print Up Front - and when they didn't pay him, he sued. He eventually won a judgement and in the meantime Valley / Radiant (whatever) had lost / spent (whatever) all of the money. So maybe it wasn't technically a rights issue.

But it was enough for me not to Kickstart anything where there is even a hint of the game designer and publisher having problems settling financial matters and not hand-in-hand supporting the project.
 
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Brad Miller
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Phil loaned Valley money. They didn't repay. He got judgements against Valley.

Valley, who were in Canada, created Radiant in Texas, so that U.S. Company could run Kickstarters. They raised a ton of cash on the Up Front KS. Phil got the judge to give him most of that, as Valley/Radiant were the same company by their actions.

Rights issues were totally unrelated, but good fun for us to argue about.
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Ryan Powers
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wwscrispin wrote:
Getaklue wrote:

As someone who was burned in the Up Front re-print fiasco due to not having the rights secured before the Kickstarter went live, I think I will be taking a wait-and-see approach to this thread before I consider Kickstarting this.


You are the second person in a couple of days to post that. Of all the issues with Valley Games and Upfront, I am not aware there was were any verified issues with the rights to Upfront.


It wasn't the primary point of failure, but if you were unaware of any potential rights issues, you weren't paying enough attention, even before the KS.
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Insomuch as VG had a contract with the designer and not with Hasbro, if the lawsuit didn't deep six the project (Rightfully so), then the rights issue may have actual been important.

So, what killed the project - VG's decision to stiff a creditor... what was the poison flask they were already consuming - licensing from a person that may not have had the rights to license.

With that said, the current "printer" has a contract with Hasbro... if C Allen has an interest or legal standing/agreement in this situation (the party that VG "licensed" the game from), making it a rights triangle, I'm not sure.

There is an entire legal course taught on this subject, being presented in the YBWDTMFUF thread.


wwscrispin wrote:
Getaklue wrote:

As someone who was burned in the Up Front re-print fiasco due to not having the rights secured before the Kickstarter went live, I think I will be taking a wait-and-see approach to this thread before I consider Kickstarting this.


You are the second person in a couple of days to post that. Of all the issues with Valley Games and Upfront, I am not aware there was were any verified issues with the rights to Upfront.
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Jonathan Franklin
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Ian, good luck working things out!
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Rick Thompson
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The whole Up Front thing has been beaten to death in other threads. Do we really have to go back into that abyss again in this thread?

That being said, one thing that can be taken from that Kickstarter is that if a red flag appears then a potential backer should proceed with caution.

At this point, it would appear that Dan may have put this Kickstarter up before he secured the rights to the game. This in itself is enough to keep me away from backing the project. If we get notification from Ian that all is well then I will reconsider.
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William Crispin
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keethrax wrote:
wwscrispin wrote:
Getaklue wrote:

As someone who was burned in the Up Front re-print fiasco due to not having the rights secured before the Kickstarter went live, I think I will be taking a wait-and-see approach to this thread before I consider Kickstarting this.


You are the second person in a couple of days to post that. Of all the issues with Valley Games and Upfront, I am not aware there was were any verified issues with the rights to Upfront.


It wasn't the primary point of failure, but if you were unaware of any potential rights issues, you weren't paying enough attention, even before the KS.


I have been buying ASL stuff since there was ASL stuff. I am well aware of MMP's travails and the murky picture of Upfront's rights. Somebody boldly proclaiming there are rights issues (who does not actually hold any rights) on a forum is worth zero. There was nothing official revealed on the matter. If you have proof otherwise I would be interested.

EDIT some people are drawn to Internet BS but I am more of a provide actual evidence type of person.
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Jeff Hall
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I find it interesting that not having the rights secured yet isn't listed in the "Risks and Challenges" section, while there is a paragraph about honesty...
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David Hoffman
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For whatever it's worth, there might well have been rights issues with Up Front, but things never progressed with the game far enough to see if anyone would challenge VRE's claim at the rights.
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Well, shit... you are the man.



wwscrispin wrote:
keethrax wrote:
wwscrispin wrote:
Getaklue wrote:

As someone who was burned in the Up Front re-print fiasco due to not having the rights secured before the Kickstarter went live, I think I will be taking a wait-and-see approach to this thread before I consider Kickstarting this.


You are the second person in a couple of days to post that. Of all the issues with Valley Games and Upfront, I am not aware there was were any verified issues with the rights to Upfront.


It wasn't the primary point of failure, but if you were unaware of any potential rights issues, you weren't paying enough attention, even before the KS.


I have been buying ASL stuff since there was ASL stuff. I am well aware of MMP's travails and the murky picture of Upfront's rights. Somebody boldly proclaiming there are rights issues (who does not actually hold any rights) on a forum is worth zero. There was nothing official revealed on the matter. If you have proof otherwise I would be interested.

EDIT some people are drawn to Internet BS but I am more of a provide actual evidence type of person.
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Justus
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Hi everybody, missed y'all on the old thread!
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Justus
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by the way. Can someone explain why the hell would anyone post the KS before securing the rights? This makes no sense to me. Does he have like a ticking time bomb that will explode if he doesn't press "publish"?
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William Crispin
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darthhugo wrote:
Well, shit... you are the man.



Indeed. Hope I did not make you feel insecure.
 
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Ian Richard
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I just got home from work, wasn't able to call yet. They do own the rights to the original game at the moment, but not the expansion yet.

For now, I'm going to say this was probably a misunderstanding but I promise you it will be dealt with though it may not end with a published game.

They'd mentioned a certain offer two days ago, but we hadn't actually discussed details yet. It is possible that we'll come to an agreement but admittedly, I might be in a "less-than agreeable" mood right now.

Don't worry about me though, I did my research and legally my bases should be covered. I have a paper trail a mile long and I'm just cutthroat enough to use it

I'll keep you guys informed when I can. I'll have something final within the next week or two. This will give you plenty of time to back or pull out of a campaign if you so choose.

I'm sorry for the trouble.
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Yeah, whatever their strategy, this didn't really work out when Queen tried it a month ago either.
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Ian Richard
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Talked to them and everything is in the clear. I had misread some things and I was in the wrong.

Everything is legal and good to go.

You guys enjoy the expansion. Remember, it was your friends here on BGG that actually made it happen.

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Done, i am in!robot
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Dan Verssen
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Thank you Ian for clearing up the misunderstanding with everyone.

As has been said, the Beyond the Veil KS is live and doing great. We hope to have everyone's support to add even more Stretch Goals.
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Frank S
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$20 shipping to Canada?!!

I will have to wait for retail.
 
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