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Subject: Boxed Set? rss

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Adam
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Hello,

I own Yomi: Complete First Edition. I missed the Kickstarter for the second edition and would like to obtain a set of the 10 shadows characters as well as a new set of the original characters with the rules and graphic design updates.

Does anyone know if Sirlin has plans to release a complete edition that includes all 20 characters and the new boards etc., or even two boxed sets with 10 characters each (similar to Puzzle Strike)?

I’m not in a hurry and would much rather wait for a boxed set instead of buying Rounds 1, 2, and a bunch of individual character decks.

Any information is appreciated. If this question was already answered in another thread, I apologize for the repeat posting.

Thanks!

-Adam
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David Sirlin
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There are no new products planned. There already is a box that exists exactly for the purpose you're saying: to store all 20 decks really nicely. It's the EX Powerup set. It has a character select screen inside showing where to put each deck and is a slick storage solution. The box itself has no product information on it, just a sleeve with that info that you can throw away, so that it's all art and looks nice to carry around.

It also comes with 100+ new cards for the EX mode, and some other stuff. Anyway, that is the complete edition right there. Buy everything and put it in the EX Powerup box.

We got universally bad feedback from every review you can find for Yomi first edition. Not that the game is bad, everyone loved that. But every single review claims the game is expensive because it "costs $100" even though it was the same price or cheaper than other competing games on a per-deck basis. Those other games don't have bundles of everything in a complete set, so a review will never call Summoner Wars a $500 game or MtG a $50,000 game or whatever. It turned out to be a huge mistake to offer a bundle of everything because all it did was draw comparisons of "part of game X" with "ALL of Yomi". So we can never really offer all of it in one package again. BUT, the EX Powerup gives you exactly what it would be in one bundle, it's just now you have the flexibility to buy any subsets of it that you want. That means "Yomi is now $40" because that's what a base set costs, or "Yomi is $10" because you can play (and even win a tournament) with just one deck.

I hope that helps explain it. You can get all Yomi products including the EX Powerup here:http://www.sirlingames.com/collections/yomi

The only exception is that the 19th and 20th decks (Vendetta and Zane) won't be released for about another week.
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Aaron White
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I was lucky to get all in on the Kickstarter. Just wanted to mention that even if you get everything including the EX box that nothing is a waste. The boxes for Round 1 and Round 2 are really high quality. I use them to store some of my other games that have less effective boxes, such as Pixel Tactics.
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Jessie Ulii
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The EX-Powerup box is really useful to store all 20 decks in one box. It's up to you if you want to spend $40 for that convenience. The EX cards that come with the box are fun but they aren't necessary to play the game. Another option is to just store the new base cards in your V1 box and the the Shadow characters in the Round 1 and Round 2 boxes. Each one can hold 8 characters.
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Adam
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Excellent! Thank you Mr. Sirlin (and others) for the responses. The way people perceive costs is certainly interesting. I suppose that's why "free"-to-play games are so successful. The idea of spending $200 over 200 micro transactions of $1 (or in this case, a handful of $40 and $10 purchases) is perhaps easier to swallow?

In any case, I was planning on getting the EX Powerup box as well so that should work out nicely for me--at least until I eventually sleeve all my cards.

If you ever decide to make a nice storage box that holds sleeved cards, you've got at least one buyer. :D

Thanks!

-Adam
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Tom Howard
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For what it's worth, I'm actually able to fit all 20 decks into the Complete First Edition box:



Now don't get me wrong, the new EX Box is great and it has an awesome insert -- I just really like the size of the old 1st Edition box. So by removing its insert, I'm able to get everything in there, including the two full sized mousepad playmats that came with the First Edition!
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Adam
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The original box is a really a nice size. I’m able to fit all 10 decks (sleeved) as well as the mouse pads. Unfortunately, that means both the inserts and tuck boxes had to be removed. I suspect that will be the case with the second edition too if I decide to keep sleeving my cards.

As someone who doesn’t sleeve their cards, how have they held up? The cards don’t seem like they’d hold up super well with a lot of use, especially since each deck gets shuffled a couple times each game (after looking for aces).
 
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David Sirlin
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I can tell you that we spend literally months on figuring out how to support sleeved cards. The final conclusion is that it made no real sense to do so.

If they are to be supported, there either can't be tuckboxes, or they need to be enormous. It makes it hard to design an internal that holds sleeves vs non-sleeves. It makes the box have to be radically bigger too. Way, way bigger. That means more expensive and more shipping costs.

Ok, but maybe all hassle is worth it? Maybe junking up the inside to support sleeves and non-sleeves is worth it and changing everyone more and having them carry around a big box is worth it too? It might be! So we asked a whole lot of players about their usage habits.

To sleeve the decks with good quality sleeves, it costs 50% of the cost of the entire game. So in other words, you break even if you just throw away half your decks and buy new ones. So we asked a lot of players how many decks they've needed to replace after years and years of use. The overwhelmingly most common answer was 0 decks. A very few people said 1 deck. But 1 deck costs only $10. So amongst literally every single person surveyed, it made no financial sense for them to use sleeves.

If that's surprising, I think part of it is that Yomi cards have a good core inside them and a coating around them that makes them a lot higher quality than MtG cards. So they tend to last pretty long (apparently years and years based on the players we asked). Furthermore, sleeving the cards means you give a tell about their orientation, rather than not giving a tell. The opponent can see which side of the card is facing them, which might matter in some cases.

You are of course welcome to use sleeves, but based on all of the above, you can see why we don't support them and why most people shouldn't even by them. I actually spent a while ramping up on making our own sleeves that were to be part of the kickstarter, but it just made no sense to ask people to pay 50% of the cost of the entire set of decks just for sleeves, when they'd save money by replacing one or two decks should they ever need to, so we didn't even go forward with producing the sleeves. (Plus the part about giving away card orientation being bad in Yomi.)
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Adam
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Your position to not “support” sleeved cards makes perfect sense. It is interesting to know that you did consider it, however. Sleeved decks really do increase the amount of space needed for storage. The other downfall is the tuck boxes go unused.

I am in a unique situation in that I can obtain quality sleeves at an extreme discount (company perk). Though, under normal circumstances I’d agree that sleeving Yomi is probably cost prohibitive. I’d perhaps make an exception for the eight characters that are bundled in the Round 1 and Round 2 boxes as they would be more expensive to replace.

I am glad to hear that your research suggests that the cards hold up well over repeat use. I am certainly tempted to give my second edition cards a try without sleeves just so I can use the tuck boxes and organizer.

The idea of giving away the facing of your card based on how they are sleeved is a great observation. I actually sleeved half the copies of my first edition cards upsidedown to specifically counter this. I suppose it’s not perfect, but knowing that I’ve sleeved the cards in different directions basically means it’s not worth trying to use the sleeves as a cue for what is coming.

Again, thank you Mr. Sirlin for the insight. I’m looking forward to receiving my second edition cards. I have a friend picking up Vendetta and Zane for me at GenCon. I’m looking forward to testing out all the new characters.


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Aaron White
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Just wanted to echo the high quality comments for the Yomi cards. I have played lots of card games over the years, but Yomi's cards are the first that made me say wow out loud. They are so nice and durable, the colours pop and they feel like they will last forever.
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colin langton
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Bucketeyo wrote:
The idea of giving away the facing of your card based on how they are sleeved is a great observation. I actually sleeved half the copies of my first edition cards upsidedown to specifically counter this. I suppose it’s not perfect, but knowing that I’ve sleeved the cards in different directions basically means it’s not worth trying to use the sleeves as a cue for what is coming.

I want to point out that for the most part, the cards are already mixed up orientation-wise — with a few exceptions, the red ranks and black ranks of cards have the top and bottom options flipped (and normal moves always have the art for the top option (also, the black "normal attack" art is different from the red art — kicks instead of punches!)). So sleeving everything rightside up should be nearly as good.

Iirc the exceptions are only on cards with combat-reveal abilities that only work on one side of the card — I seem to recall that these ranks always have that option on top.

This is slightly more exploitable than sleeving randomly since your opponent can be sure that, for example, when your red aces are both in discard, any other aces you play are going to be the other way around. But ehh
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Andrew Hauge
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Sirlin wrote:
There are no new products planned. There already is a box that exists exactly for the purpose you're saying: to store all 20 decks really nicely. It's the EX Powerup set. It has a character select screen inside showing where to put each deck and is a slick storage solution. The box itself has no product information on it, just a sleeve with that info that you can throw away, so that it's all art and looks nice to carry around.

It also comes with 100+ new cards for the EX mode, and some other stuff. Anyway, that is the complete edition right there. Buy everything and put it in the EX Powerup box.

!!!!! I did not realize this! That's really good to know!
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Creepy horrocks
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CarpeGuitarrem wrote:
Sirlin wrote:
There are no new products planned. There already is a box that exists exactly for the purpose you're saying: to store all 20 decks really nicely. It's the EX Powerup set. It has a character select screen inside showing where to put each deck and is a slick storage solution. The box itself has no product information on it, just a sleeve with that info that you can throw away, so that it's all art and looks nice to carry around.

It also comes with 100+ new cards for the EX mode, and some other stuff. Anyway, that is the complete edition right there. Buy everything and put it in the EX Powerup box.

!!!!! I did not realize this! That's really good to know!
i agree reading this makes me want to order everything i don't already have. The OCD i have makes me want to buy an fill that EX power up set ASAP.
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