Gustavo Sanchez
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Just wondering, since it seems like it wouldn't break the game, but could provide a refreshing, subtle solution in situations when you don't have a useful order card.
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Kevin Riddle

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we do that if no card to play
 
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Jon Snow
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Is that a Battle Lore 2.0 rule?
 
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Brian Piippo
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As I recall you could always play a card and order one unit.
 
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Gustavo Sanchez
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Yes that is a Battlelore 2.0 rule. And from what I recall, no, the original Memoir rules don't allow you to do that.
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nexbot wrote:
Just wondering, since it seems like it wouldn't break the game, but could provide a refreshing, subtle solution in situations when you don't have a useful order card.


The other solution is to always make sure you use your current useful card set up your next turns to also have a useful card.

(edit: should be in Variants)
 
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Gustavo Sanchez
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darthnice wrote:
nexbot wrote:
Just wondering, since it seems like it wouldn't break the game, but could provide a refreshing, subtle solution in situations when you don't have a useful order card.


The other solution is to always make sure you use your current useful card set up your next turns to also have a useful card.

(edit: should be in Variants)


Yes, but, having played about 13 times already, I've already experienced an initial draw or two where I literally had no useful order cards.
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Bill Grose
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This is really the purpose of the Recon card - to change out your hand.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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Jackson62 wrote:
This is really the purpose of the Recon card - to change out your hand.


You mean the card that says "draw 2, keep one?" I wouldn't call that changing out a hand.

And what do you do those times when you literally have no applicable order cards? Just use an order card, not apply its effects, and hope you draw an applicable one? Has this only happened to me?

It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen to me, and the Battlelore variant seems a very respectable way to resolve this minor flaw in the original ruleset. (I consider it a flaw since it results in a player not being able to make any meaningful decisions and hoping that blind luck results in them being able to)
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Rauli Kettunen
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nexbot wrote:
And what do you do those times when you literally have no applicable order cards? Just use an order card, not apply its effects, and hope you draw an applicable one? Has this only happened to me?


Timing of this also makes a difference. Earlier you mentioned having one or two initial draws with no playable cards, that I can recall happening once in my 156 plays (a scenario where Allies only start with 4 cards and no units on one of the flanks, can't recall playing any other scenarios with such setups, there's pretty much always units in all three sections to start off with).

As to not having playable cards later on the game, well, the mirror is a better place to look for a culprit than the game . You ordered/moved your units, marshalled your hand, as did your opponent, so you know if for example a lot of cards for Flank X have been already used, don't move men into that flank unless you already have cards in hand for that flank. Granted, opponent probably did his part in killing off some units from a particular section, but mostly I'd say it's the player's fault for not covering their bases.
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Nolan Cluff

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Crazy odds. I've played MM44 50 or more times and never had that happen.
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Lewis Karl
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Same here. Rarely happens and never at the beginning of the game. Even if you have 4 cards at the beginning, provided there are units in all three sections (which is the case in a decently designed scenario), then I can't see how you could have no cards to play at the beginning. Maybe you don't have great cards, but you'll have some to play.

As previously mentioned, this does happen in 4 card defensive situations later in the game, when one section has been decimated. In that case, its not a flaw, but a design element. You need to manage as best as possible in this situation as defender. Maybe planning ahead to avoid this situation is possible.

Remember, you should always play the scenario a second time, swapping sides if you have time. In that case, your opponent should suffer also.

A more common situation is you are battling heavy in one section and after a few turns run out of cards for that section. Your opponent still has cards and starts to clean your clock. You're screwed because your units in the other sections are too far away to matter. That's tough luck and not a flaw either. In this case you should not be allowed to throw away a card to order a unit in this section.
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nexbot wrote:
Yes, but, having played about 13 times already, I've already experienced an initial draw or two where I literally had no useful order cards.


Having played 100 times (paltry in comparison to others), I've had it happen to me, but only in the first 10 plays. After that, I realized it was my fault.
 
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Short answer, no, I have not used, nor have I seen a need for such a rule.

As others have noted, card management (anticipating the direction of both your own and your opponent's operations) is part of the core design of the game. Very rarely have a run into a situation where I "ran out of cards" I could play, and then almost always when I took a deliberate gamble by going "all in" on a high risk/high reward attack in a single sector.

Part of the point of this game is that you often (as in real military operations) cannot do what you want/what seems best. I am generally not in favor of mechanics that dilute that concept.
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Jon Snow
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Agree. After all, if you "run out of cards," you just play a useless one and draw another anyhow. It is even more likely you'll get something you can use in Overlord and Breakthrough play.
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Ryan Keane
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I think I've only had that happen once or twice, but it meant I was pretty much about to lose anyway, having very few units left. I don't see a need for the Battlelore rule, although I do like how the Breakthrough deck gives more options.
 
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Craig H
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It would be interesting to see a list of what cards a person is holding and maybe a rough description of the board when people claim there is literally nothing they can do.

For the record, I am also in the camp of thinking having nothing you can do is a very rare event.
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Lewis Karl
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As I said above, having no cards to play is a rare occurrence, but I had a significant no-card experience this weekend.

We played the scenario, Le siège de Giarabub, scenario 10 (the last scenario) of jdrommel's Operation Compass campaign, in which I was defending as the Italians and had to discard quite a few cards. I started out with a decent hand, but the Australian player chewed away at my left and right flanks until I had only a few units in the center, the most important being the artillery.



To win the Australian player has to kill 6 of 8 Italian units so its pretty likely the Italian player will be discarding cards. I thought the Italians would get murdered in this scenario, but it ended up 6-to-5 in favor of the Aussies. Having to discard cards was not annoying and thoroughly enjoyable in this scenario.

I don't understand the complaints when discarding is necessary. Allowing free order on a discard is akin to cheating in my book. Its like playing a first-person shooter with the Invincibility cheat enabled (it just reminds me of my friend playing Doom with invincibility mode on because he couldn't stand getting killed by the monsters-just not fun IMO).
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Nathanael Robinson
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Having no playable cards in the first turn (before the distance between forces has closed) is manageable, and is preferable to having no playable cards at the end of the game.
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Craig H
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Bad Thoughts wrote:
Having no playable cards in the first turn (before the distance between forces has closed) is manageable, and is preferable to having no playable cards at the end of the game.


But at the start of the game, you likely have units in every sector. Are there truly combinations of cards that are not playable ?

I agree you may have cards that you don't want to play - but cards that you literally cannot play any of them ?
 
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Nathanael Robinson
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CraigH wrote:
Bad Thoughts wrote:
Having no playable cards in the first turn (before the distance between forces has closed) is manageable, and is preferable to having no playable cards at the end of the game.


But at the start of the game, you likely have units in every sector. Are there truly combinations of cards that are not playable ?

I agree you may have cards that you don't want to play - but cards that you literally cannot play any of them ?


I may have played one scenario in C&C Ancients--a fan-made scenario--in which one side had no units in one section. It represented a level of disorganization that the player must resolve.

But to your larger point: yes, you should have units in every section. Almost every army can be interpreted as having a left, center and right, and if one army is weaker, its opponent can be rescaled to represent its relative strength.


Personally, I don't share the OP's alarm at being incapable of playing cards at some point during a game. I've won one or two games in which I have had to discard one or two cards without taking an action.
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Tod Andrew
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Bad Thoughts wrote:



Personally, I don't share the OP's alarm at being incapable of playing cards at some point during a game. I've won one or two games in which I have had to discard one or two cards without taking an action.


An alternative to the proposed variant of playing a card and being able to move any one unit is

discard a card and draw two (or three) cards from which you choose to keep one card. So, you've effectively lost a turn, but possibly improved your hand.
 
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