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Subject: Combat with Intrinsic Defense rss

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Rezard Vareth
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I understand that the 9-12 intrinsic defense in China "regenerates" upon a change of control of the hex, but what happens (in either China or Japan) if enough damage is allocated to the intrinsic defense to destroy it, but there isn't a change of control because it also destroyed the attacker?

The example that raised this question was an attack on an otherwise empty Japanese city hex by two army corps on their reduced side (11-12). The Allies rolled above 0 (supported by navy and air), but the Japanese rolled 9, scoring 24 hits. If these were normal units I would understand that both sides' units are destroyed and defender retains control of the hex. Here, though, I wasn't sure if "destroying" the intrinsic defense requires gaining control of the hex.

I played that it did, but I wanted to confirm.

((If I played wrong and the intrinsic defense doesn't regenerate, is that true in China as well? I could imagine a case where there are 3x 9-12 units, and an attacker "destroys" two of them in battle but is still forced to retreat. Wondering if he has to start over from 3x on the next offensive (setting aside the edge case that it is the end of the turn and the Japanese withdraw enough divisions to reduce intrinsic defense).))
 
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Mark Herman
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RezardVareth wrote:
I understand that the 9-12 intrinsic defense in China "regenerates" upon a change of control of the hex, but what happens (in either China or Japan) if enough damage is allocated to the intrinsic defense to destroy it, but there isn't a change of control because it also destroyed the attacker?

The example that raised this question was an attack on an otherwise empty Japanese city hex by two army corps on their reduced side (11-12). The Allies rolled above 0 (supported by navy and air), but the Japanese rolled 9, scoring 24 hits. If these were normal units I would understand that both sides' units are destroyed and defender retains control of the hex. Here, though, I wasn't sure if "destroying" the intrinsic defense requires gaining control of the hex.

I played that it did, but I wanted to confirm.

((If I played wrong and the intrinsic defense doesn't regenerate, is that true in China as well? I could imagine a case where there are 3x 9-12 units, and an attacker "destroys" two of them in battle but is still forced to retreat. Wondering if he has to start over from 3x on the next offensive (setting aside the edge case that it is the end of the turn and the Japanese withdraw enough divisions to reduce intrinsic defense).))


The game has no memory, so if there is no Allied control marker on the hex, the intrinsic defense is intact regardless of what happened in the past. So, if your Allied Corps were eliminated and did not capture the hex, the intrinsic defense is intact.

Remember to lose 1 US political will if all of the Allied units were eliminated.
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Bill Mitchell
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It seems to me that the roll of 9 would generate 18 hits by an attack factor of 9. The 2 attacking units have a defense strength of 12 (24 total)
so only one would be destroyed and control would be gained. Am I missing something?
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Mark Herman
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wliednm wrote:
It seems to me that the roll of 9 would generate 18 hits by an attack factor of 9. The 2 attacking units have a defense strength of 12 (24 total)
so only one would be destroyed and control would be gained. Am I missing something?


Rezard did not specify, but I assumed it was an amphibious assault which would have halved the defense strength of the attackers and their defense would be 12 not 24. If it were an overland attack then you are correct only one unit would be eliminated.
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Rezard Vareth
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MarkHerman wrote:
wliednm wrote:
It seems to me that the roll of 9 would generate 18 hits by an attack factor of 9. The 2 attacking units have a defense strength of 12 (24 total)
so only one would be destroyed and control would be gained. Am I missing something?


Rezard did not specify, but I assumed it was an amphibious assault which would have halved the defense strength of the attackers and their defense would be 12 not 24. If it were an overland attack then you are correct only one unit would be eliminated.


Sorry, was an overland assault on a Japanese city (12-12). The preface was a bit confusing.

I follow Erasmus logic on AA. I could've probably spared the PW at that point but was afraid I'd come up short on replacements, time and ASPs.

The endgame, by the way, is very interesting.
 
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Rezard Vareth
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MarkHerman wrote:
The game has no memory, so if there is no Allied control marker on the hex, the intrinsic defense is intact regardless of what happened in the past. So, if your Allied Corps were eliminated and did not capture the hex, the intrinsic defense is intact.

Remember to lose 1 US political will if all of the Allied units were eliminated.


Just wanted to confirm that intrinsic defense for Japanese cities goes away once Allies have ever taken control of the hex. This could have been relevant in my case, as the Japanese attempted a counterattack the following turn.

Also, I had mistakenly thought the PW loss was just for AA. Thanks for the reminder!
 
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Mark Herman
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RezardVareth wrote:
MarkHerman wrote:
The game has no memory, so if there is no Allied control marker on the hex, the intrinsic defense is intact regardless of what happened in the past. So, if your Allied Corps were eliminated and did not capture the hex, the intrinsic defense is intact.

Remember to lose 1 US political will if all of the Allied units were eliminated.


Just wanted to confirm that intrinsic defense for Japanese cities goes away once Allies have ever taken control of the hex. This could have been relevant in my case, as the Japanese attempted a counterattack the following turn.

Also, I had mistakenly thought the PW loss was just for AA. Thanks for the reminder!


The last sentence in 13.94 states, "...Once an Allied control marker is placed in a Japanese hex, the intrinsic ground step is permanently eliminated, even if the Japanese later regain control of the hex."
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