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Subject: I really enjoy the leagues... rss

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Silly Words
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Just wanted to put that out there. It's a great addition to the online Terra world. There is one thing to play endless games of Terra, but being in a league system gives you an extra purpose. At least for me, the idea that I can go up a division is a great motivation. It is also nice socially, playing a few games in a row against the same people, you get to cross comment games.

So I'm looking forward to season 8 starting.

cheers

SW
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Miguel Duran
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I agree. What I find interesting is that table talk was a little more present in my leagues than in my normal online plays and that was a little weird. At one point, one of my competitors suggested that so-and-so should really expand in a certain direction because it'd totally jeopardize my strategy. I'm used to that in my at-home games but it was so out of the ordinary in my online games (nobody ever does that from what I've seen) that I got a bit annoyed.

Then again, I've also mutely sat back and watched my competitors feed Cultists easy win after easy win by seemingly completely ignoring the cult track, so maybe being quiet isn't so great. ;-)
 
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Jakob MPunkt
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Hey I also really enjoy the league, still stucked in Division 7 but thats ok, in season 6 I was last in my group now I got 4th place...
That's for sure because I read through some plays in the first 3 divisions. But just reading is a little bit disturbing do you know is there a way to watch games played per move has s1 programmed sthg like this?

rgds Jey
 
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Robert
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JaydedOne wrote:
I agree. What I find interesting is that table talk was a little more present in my leagues than in my normal online plays and that was a little weird. At one point, one of my competitors suggested that so-and-so should really expand in a certain direction because it'd totally jeopardize my strategy. I'm used to that in my at-home games but it was so out of the ordinary in my online games (nobody ever does that from what I've seen) that I got a bit annoyed.

Then again, I've also mutely sat back and watched my competitors feed Cultists easy win after easy win by seemingly completely ignoring the cult track, so maybe being quiet isn't so great. ;-)
I feel that giving tactical or strategic advice to an opponent while the game runs is Very Bad Style (TM).
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Miguel Duran
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DocCool wrote:
I feel that giving tactical or strategic advice to an opponent while the game runs is Very Bad Style (TM).


100% agreed. It's tempting sometimes, but I think it's extremely bad form for the online medium among strangers. For some reason, I'm fine with it among friends over the table.

That said, there was definitely a part of me, in a game where the Cultists walloped the other 4 players by a 40 point margin over the second highest score, where I just wanted to chat in round 3 "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP LEECHING."

But I didn't.
 
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Robert
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JaydedOne wrote:
DocCool wrote:
I feel that giving tactical or strategic advice to an opponent while the game runs is Very Bad Style (TM).


100% agreed. It's tempting sometimes, but I think it's extremely bad form for the online medium among strangers. For some reason, I'm fine with it among friends over the table.
I don't like it at the table either. The only exception is during introduction games, when I advice newbies regarding their potential actions and the pros and cons of each, up to a "no, you don't want to do this, because..." But then my advice is based on my honest opinion on what they should do and includes actions which hurt my own faction. Not the type of advice which aims to sweet-talk one opponent into some action which may indeed somewhat help him/her, but mainly help me.yukshake
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Yvon Fripon
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DocCool wrote:
JaydedOne wrote:
DocCool wrote:
I feel that giving tactical or strategic advice to an opponent while the game runs is Very Bad Style (TM).


100% agreed. It's tempting sometimes, but I think it's extremely bad form for the online medium among strangers. For some reason, I'm fine with it among friends over the table.
I don't like it at the table either. The only exception is during introduction games, when I advice newbies regarding their potential actions and the pros and cons of each, up to a "no, you don't want to do this, because..." But then my advice is based on my honest opinion on what they should do and includes actions which hurt my own faction. Not the type of advice which aims to sweet-talk one opponent into some action which may indeed somewhat help him/her, but mainly help me.yukshake


My opinion on the subject :

- Logic, argumented and win-win propositions (eg. "if you build there, I will join you and we can both leech and build TP... oh yeah, and it also annoys this other player, so it's even better for us both") are totally fine and in adequation with the spirit of board games in general. That may be the Diplomacy player speaking, but I feel like there is not enough constructive negociations in TM online.

- "Bad" or tricky advices, trying to induce people into doing moves that are worse for themselves than for yourself (eg. "look ! if you build there you can really screw this other player ! well, it'll cost you, but player 3 will be almost out of the race !") really don't bring anything to the table. Any good player will ignore them (so save the trouble and prevent yourself from looking silly) and only newbies will likely fall into the trap, screw their own plan and be disappointed about their experience.
 
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Robert
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I've probably played as many online games of Diplomacy as of TM, and I'm not fond of the idea of mixing the two.

If you feel that playing TM is like playing Diplomacy, just with another underlying mechanism, then I probably don't want to play with you. Even though it may turn out that I'm better than you in sweet-talking somebody into doing something which helps me. It's just not that type of game.

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Yvon Fripon
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Well, the "sweet talking" would fall on the second category of "advices" that I describe, that I indeed find inappropriate for TM (and for Diplomacy too, for that matter).

I don't say that TM is a Diplomacy with different rules (though one could argue that any board game is a Diplomacy with different rules ?), but I feel like there are many situations when talking with another player and making short term agreements would lead to profitable plays for both players involved. And this kind of talk rarely occurs in TM online (but much more IRL, at least in my group), probably mainly because people play a dozen game and don't want to wait for several hours to have an answer from the other party.
 
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Robert
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You think that the 2nd category is inappropriate for Diplomacy? surprise In my times, Diplomacy was all about making promises, establishing trust, cooperating for mutual benefit, sweet-talking others to do something and then pick a good moment to break all your promises, betray them, stab them in the back, conquer their lands and kick them out of the game. devil

Anyway, I'm glad that in all the snellman games I have played so far, nobody tried the "honest advice" thing for "mutual benefit".
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Matthias Reitberger
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The general assumption in tournaments (face to face) is that negotiations are forbidden in games that don't explicitly allow them.
Diplomacy doesn't work without, 1830 explicitly allows and TM and most eurogames don't mention it.
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Yvon Fripon
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I would be interested in knowing what the organizer of the TM League, or even the creators of the game, think of this matter, in competitive games.
 
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Rhett Morgan
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Yvon wrote:
I would be interested in knowing what the organizer of the TM League, or even the creators of the game, think of this matter, in competitive games.


Negotiations or promises like this actually defeat half the purpose of the game. You're supposed to have a plan, that plan may fail depending on others' choices. It may not. However, once you start "buddying up" then that entire part of the game disappears and it now becomes a team game. If you really like that, just play 2p with two factions each. I'd be the first to resign in a game where team play becomes apparent.
 
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Yvon Fripon
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So, taking a hypothetical situation (on terra.snellman or IRL) :

Dwarves : Hey Darklings, if you place your first dwelling on E10, I'll put mine in F6.
Darklings : OK

Is this unacceptable ?
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Matthias Reitberger
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For me it is.
It's not the way I like to play TM.
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Miguel Duran
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I am also not a fan of it on Snellman. I don't think it belongs there. I also wouldn't expect it at a face-to-face tournament.

With a home group, I'd say it's different because you can set the parameters for what's acceptable before the game begins, since the rules don't mention it. If you want a strict policy barring negotiation, you can have that. If you want something more nuanced, you can have that. If you want it to be open discussion because you're teaching newbies, that's fine too. I wouldn't dictate what one does with their own play group because what's the point (or likely efficacy) of that?
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Robert
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Somebody just created a poll about the topic.

Giving advice and/or making deals in a TM game
 
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Ozan GUMUS
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Agreed, its really fun and also compatitive. Thanks Bjolletz
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