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Subject: Lot of cheese. Are we playing wrong ? rss

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Lionel
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Hello,

We just got the game and almost finished the first campaign with my wife.
We enjoy the game a lot, even though it's a bit long as I need to refer to the forum pretty often to clear out some ambiguities. Not sure it's the game fault.It's my wife's game and she wanted to learn the rules and explain them to me for once (I'm usually the rules teacher), so i might not be used to this

Anyway, I think we got pretty much all of the rules right.
The only strange thing is that we have a large amount of cheese. We don't really find the need to spend it much (except a few healings and a couple cockroaches thief). Before leveling up we run out of cheese token twice (even before the kitchen and its 6 cheese on the table).
I have read from the designer that it is pretty unusual to run out of cheese, but there is no "hand limit" and that tokens are virtually unlimited. Which makes me wonder two things:

- are we overlooking a gaining/spending cheese rule, or do we just save too much?
We just take them for the correct cases I believe (attack/defense) With the magician getting 2 cheeses in some cases, it adds up pretty fast.

- we already leveled up the characters with one or two more abilities each.
That's only the first chapter, and there are already not that many abilities left. In a campaign mode how do you handle that? If each character levels up once or twice a chapter, we will run out of abilities by chapter 3 or 4.
Is that something you experienced or did I miss something ?

Thanks !
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Mike Waleke
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Hmm That does seem like a lot cheese.
I usually average being able to by one power per chapter, not per character just one total.

Just to clarify;

only attack and defense rolls gain cheese. (not movement or any other time you are instructed to roll the dice)
Also you only roll defense dice if you need to. I.e. if the monster missed you don't get to roll defense dice just to try and gain cheese.

And only one cheese per die.

How few hits are you rolling? Theoretically if you roll a lot cheese on defense you will need to spend more on healing. If you roll a lot of cheese on an attack the monster will most likely still be around to attack you.
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Laura Blachek
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madmanw wrote:

Also you only roll defense dice if you need to. I.e. if the monster missed you don't get to roll defense dice just to try and gain cheese.

.


Hmm.. Not sure i realized this... Does that mean if you completely miss a monster, it doesnt roll defense either? That would have saved my husband and i a few cheeses on the cheese wheel....
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David Pereira
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Are you keeping cheese between chapters?
 
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Ray Greenley
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Also make sure you're only giving Maginos double cheese on attacks, not on defense.

The cheese is on one side of the die. You should probably be able to get a feel for if you're rolling more cheese that you should on average.

Are you not spending the cheese on abilities? You'll build up cheese if you don't use it on abilities, although then you're not taking advantage of the bonuses the abilities provide. If you're having an easy enough time with the game that you're not feeling the need to use abilities, you may be missing something else. Are you certain you're rolling the right number of dice for attack and defense?

Or you're just rolling really well! That's always a possibility, too!
 
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Ray Greenley
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slaybalj wrote:
madmanw wrote:

Also you only roll defense dice if you need to. I.e. if the monster missed you don't get to roll defense dice just to try and gain cheese.

.


Hmm.. Not sure i realized this... Does that mean if you completely miss a monster, it doesnt roll defense either? That would have saved my husband and i a few cheeses on the cheese wheel....

Laura, that's correct. You NEVER roll defense if the attack doesn't roll any hits.
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Lionel
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madmanw wrote:
Hmm That does seem like a lot cheese.
I usually average being able to by one power per chapter, not per character just one total.

Just to clarify;

only attack and defense rolls gain cheese. (not movement or any other time you are instructed to roll the dice)
Also you only roll defense dice if you need to. I.e. if the monster missed you don't get to roll defense dice just to try and gain cheese.

And only one cheese per die.

How few hits are you rolling? Theoretically if you roll a lot cheese on defense you will need to spend more on healing. If you roll a lot of cheese on an attack the monster will most likely still be around to attack you.


RMGreen wrote:
Also make sure you're only giving Maginos double cheese on attacks, not on defense.

The cheese is on one side of the die. You should probably be able to get a feel for if you're rolling more cheese that you should on average.

Are you not spending the cheese on abilities? You'll build up cheese if you don't use it on abilities, although then you're not taking advantage of the bonuses the abilities provide. If you're having an easy enough time with the game that you're not feeling the need to use abilities, you may be missing something else. Are you certain you're rolling the right number of dice for attack and defense?

Or you're just rolling really well! That's always a possibility, too!



Thanks for all the answers. Apparently nothing we missed.
We do give maginos his extra cheese only on attack, the thief gets cheese also when he kills, we don't get cheese on movement rolls and we don't throw defense dices when the attack fails.
We didn't spent any cheese at all on abilities until the very end of the game (maybe maginos once in the kitchen, and a couple of healings total?) that might be why.

We don't feel the combats were that easy though, but no we never really felt that we couldn't be successful without the abilities. I don't think we missed anything on the combat side either but I will doublecheck.

Right now all characters have an extra ability with 1 or 2 characters With a 2nd one, and still s few cheese left for everyone.
Maginos super attack costed 3, and healings costs 1 (or 2 for poison). As far as I remember the basic healing didn't count as an action (for 1 cheese) per turn. Hopefully that was right.


Though, we didn't exactly finish the game. We are on the last tree tile, so who knows we could still lose because we have taken too much time before (we are on page 5, the end at 7).

Thanks for the confirmation and help
 
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David Munch
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landcsf wrote:
(even before the kitchen and its 6 cheese on the table).

Technically you are not getting the cheese on the table. You can house rule it of course, as the game designer himself does.
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Lionel
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Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
landcsf wrote:
(even before the kitchen and its 6 cheese on the table).

Technically you are not getting the cheese on the table. You can house rule it of course, as the game designer himself does.


Yes, I saw the designer answer before deciding wether to take it or not. But even though token-wise it is still participating to the missing cheeses
We didn't take it for our 2nd game.

To give a bit more feedback on our experience, if some of you are still interested: we surprisingly ended up... Losing.
We were all in the tree, only one minion left, but it managed to kill a mouse and therefore ending the last page.

Interestingly, we did a reboot immediately, played again and won. On this second game we never went short of cheese token, and not a single character got even one ability upgrade.
That's really intriguing. Spending the cheese worth it apparently
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Dhiraj Pallin
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Why couldn't one of the remaining players get back out of the tree and kill the last minion? Pretty sure the book says that all non-captured mice have to be in the tree. So it's still a win.

I also was running out of cheese on my first game. I was playing Maginos and I wanted to horde my cheese for my Chained Lightning ability. I couldn't see the point in getting other abilities. But eventually I got a 2nd ability just because I was worried about getting captured and losing my cheese. That's definitely a consideration, if you horde it you run the risk of losing it.

I'm still not sure what you do in situations where the cheese runs out, I would assume you replace it with other tokens, because otherwise it would just break the game.
 
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Lionel
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Dhiraj wrote:
Why couldn't one of the remaining players get back out of the tree and kill the last minion? Pretty sure the book says that all non-captured mice have to be in the tree. So it's still a win.


It adds a page to the counter, and that was our last one
 
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Dhiraj Pallin
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Ah right, I misread

Yes we lost our first game too. We didn't choose a healing ability or First Aid at the start, and by the time we got to the last tile we all had wounds with no way to heal them. (On the sewer tile we drew the cockroaches with top initiative and Maginos with 2nd initiative. Poor Maginos was almost killed, but survived because he rolled a cheese on his final defence die and sacrificed that instead of a wound.)
Then at the crow tile we basically rolled 1, 1, 1, 1, until we were all dead.
Pretty harsh for a kid's game
 
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