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Caverna: The Cave Farmers» Forums » General

Subject: Laser-cut insert for this game - asking for feedback rss

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Falko Jäger
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My previous post on this topic was automatically removed because of some badly chosen keywords. I am recreating the post without the offensive part and only to gather more feedback if anyone still wants to add some. Thanks!

---

I am 50% of "The Game Doctors"; we are two friends from Berlin, Germany, who enjoy playing board games. This hobby has spawned another hobby for us: designing laser-cut inserts for complex games.

At the moment we are presenting our prototypes on Facebook. One of them is for this game.

It looks like this:







We want to make our inserts the best they can be, so we would really appreciate some feedback from the BGG community!

You'll find [listitem=4019208]more images[/listitem] on the geeklist Wooden Inserts/Organizers.

We also have an article about our this insert on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/gamedoctors/posts/497170417108344
Please feel free to comment or ask us anything.

Thank you!!!
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Grant
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I'm just curious about what could have possibly been in your original post about laser cut inserts that was so offensive that your post was deleted.
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that Matt
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grant5 wrote:
I'm just curious about what could have possibly been in your original post about laser cut inserts that was so offensive that your post was deleted.

Must have been judged to have been too close to advertisement for admins' tastes. There's a funny line somewhere between acceptable discussion of products and unacceptable promotion of products.
 
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Well, I obviously cannot repeat the problematic part without risking deletion again, but Matt is about right.
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jimmy jo jim Bob
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These look great. But, for me at least, price point is everything. My friend has the game and bought some small tupperware containters to hold the fiddly bits and it works very well. I imagine he spent about $15 for those. I'm guessing this insert would be much more than that.

For those who wish to "pimp their game", this is likely a viable option. I have no idea what percentage of gamers do this, though.
 
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Matthew Hart

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Jeegen wrote:
These look great. But, for me at least, price point is everything. My friend has the game and bought some small tupperware containters to hold the fiddly bits and it works very well. I imagine he spent about $15 for those. I'm guessing this insert would be much more than that.


Caverna was a tough one for organizing. I like these different inserts as well. But I agree that the price point is everything. I, too bought some nested tupperware for the bits and it works well enough.

There is a market for these kinds of inserts and it looks like everything would fit in the box. It would be good to see the inserts/boards packed into the box to ensure it all gets in there...

Good Luck with the project...
 
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Dick Hunt
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These look absolutely awesome; I'm impressed just by the fact that you could make it all fit in the box!

I agree, however, that price point is everything in terms of being able to sell something like this. When little plastic bags come with the game for free, one's willingness to spring for whatever these might cost is dampened considerably. It's too bad, too, because I own a couple of hundred games that came with utterly useless plastic inserts that don't hold anything in place the way your inserts would.

One other suggestion for an improvement: for each layer of your inserts, you should include a clear, tight-fitting plastic lid that will hold the components in place if the box is flipped upside down by someone wanting to see the back of the game box. Good examples include the plastic tray lids that came with the Valley Games version of Titan or Cleopatra and the Society of Architects.

Lords of Waterdeep is another game that desperately needed the plastic lid over the otherwise pretty nice insert that came with the game. A guy I met at a con showed up with his Lords of Waterdeep pieces all over the inside of the box because he'd put the game in his trunk and it got tipped over somehow. He and I spent 15 minutes sorting out all the pieces and putting them back into the insert.

Five minutes later, someone else saw the game box sitting there and picked it up...and flipped it over to read the back of the box...
 
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Hartm wrote:
It would be good to see the inserts/boards packed into the box to ensure it all gets in there...



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Jeegen wrote:
These look great.


Hartm wrote:
Good Luck with the project...


DSHStratRat2 wrote:
These look absolutely awesome; I'm impressed just by the fact that you could make it all fit in the box!


Thank you!!!
 
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DSHStratRat2 wrote:
One other suggestion for an improvement: for each layer of your inserts, you should include a clear, tight-fitting plastic lid that will hold the components in place if the box is flipped upside down by someone wanting to see the back of the game box.


The way it is designed right now every layer atop another holds the contents below it in place. You could turn this one around as much as you like without anything mixing up. As long as you keep the lid shut of course. Should you for example store the game on edge, shove it around a bit and allow the lid to "wander", a bad case of component spillage is likely to occur...
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What would be the expected price for the kit?
 
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tim thorson
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I think they look great. Unfortunately for me shipping to the U.S. Would make it cost prohibitive.
 
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As far as we know now it will be 16€ + shipping. But this is not final and might change a little.
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Andy Burgess
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At that price, it would be rude not to. I'll definitely be looking to buy. We need a BrokenToken-alike in Europe.
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Sign me up meeple
 
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Jonathan Warren
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MercifulBiscuit wrote:
At that price, it would be rude not to. I'll definitely be looking to buy. We need a BrokenToken-alike in Europe.

I'd be interested at that price too.
 
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Final version done!

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I recommend this link to all who expressed interest.
 
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* J *
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Looks good! I would be interested, but the price plus shipping to Australia is not competitive sadly.

The Broken Token version is about 30 Euro over here, but it is the market leader so you would need to beat that by some margin. Your KS comes in at 18 Euro plus 43 Euro for shipping, so significantly more.

Have you considered making an insert for Fields of Arle? I don't think BT currently make one.
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* J *
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The price point for US orders also looks problematic to me. You are asking 60 USD for one Caverna insert delivered to US. Amazon offers the Broken Token Caverna insert for 35 USD delivered, so nearly half.

Perhaps your model works better for the European market though.
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Dick Hunt
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Seamo66 wrote:
The price point for US orders also looks problematic to me. You are asking 60 USD for one Caverna insert delivered to US. Amazon offers the Broken Token Caverna insert for 35 USD delivered, so nearly half.

Perhaps your model works better for the European market though.


You have a gift for understatement, sir. Although this insert looks absolutely beautiful, we're still talking about a box insert for a board game that costs nearly as much as the game itself.

Good luck with this work of art, but it's currently insanely expensive at the quoted prices I've seen here. Until it can be mass-produced cheaply enough for American consumers to bother with, we'll just have to admire its appearance from a distance.

It's my loss, I guess, but my disposable income just isn't this disposable.
 
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The price of the insert seems reasonable at about 18 USD for Caverna. The problem seems to be the shipping price: only 5 USD within Germany, but 38 USD to the US.
 
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Seamo66 wrote:
The price of the insert seems reasonable at about 18 USD for Caverna. The problem seems to be the shipping price: only 5 USD within Germany, but 38 USD to the US.


If you think that $18 just for the box insert of a board game is reasonable, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm used to the box inserts in my games being included with the game for no extra charge. While they obviously add something to the cost of producing the game, the thought of adding $18 to a game's price tag just to pay for the box insert is insane.

Because this particular box insert probably sets the gold standard for box insert quality and utility, I can understand that it would be more expensive than most box inserts. But adding $18 to the cost of the game? No way.
 
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DSHStratRat2 wrote:
Seamo66 wrote:
The price of the insert seems reasonable at about 18 USD for Caverna. The problem seems to be the shipping price: only 5 USD within Germany, but 38 USD to the US.


If you think that $18 just for the box insert of a board game is reasonable, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm used to the box inserts in my games being included with the game for no extra charge. While they obviously add something to the cost of producing the game, the thought of adding $18 to a game's price tag just to pay for the box insert is insane.

Because this particular box insert probably sets the gold standard for box insert quality and utility, I can understand that it would be more expensive than most box inserts. But adding $18 to the cost of the game? No way.


Well, that's a different discussion. You are clearly not the target market and that's fine.

For me, $18 is reasonable, particularly considering the Broken Token equivalent is double that. So, it's a shame that the cost of shipping is prohibitive.
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Will Blagg
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Can I ask what type of laser you used and what kind of settings? I have a Full Spectrum 45w laser, and I'm just getting into cutting 1/8 baltic birch. I can occasionally cut it fine, but I still get char marks, and not as near clean lines as say "Broken Token". I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong or which way to adjust. I'm currently using 15% speed and 50% power.
 
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