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Kemet» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on winning battles and controlling areas rss

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Christian Miedel
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Hey Everyone!

Just played my first game of Kemet and loved it. I especially liked the battle mechanic-super awesome.

We did encounter a few questions when playing and were curious of how this pans out. It's possible I missed it in the rules/on the forum. I scanned for 15 minutes so I thought I gave it at least a half-hearted attempt :-)

1. Do you have to have a unit present to keep the temporary victory point for a temple? I know you do for a pyramid.

2. Also, if the answer to the first question is no-If you, the defender, are in control of a temple and there is a battle where the attacker wins but all of his units are killed AND all your units are killed, who controls the temple? Same applies if the attacker loses but all the defender's units are killed.

3. Just to clarify, if the attacker loses but totally kills the defender (or vice versa) they have to leave the area correct? ( I know I could find this quickly, but wanted to ask anyway)

Thanks everyone!!
 
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Greg
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You have to have at least one unit in a temple to keep that temporary VP token.

3. Don't have the rules handy at the moment, but I believe you are correct.
 
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Sean West
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dracoalien007 wrote:
1. Do you have to have a unit present to keep the temporary victory point for a temple? I know you do for a pyramid.

Yes. See Rules, bottom of page 7 (on my copy), "Controlling Temples."

dracoalien007 wrote:
2. Also, if the answer to the first question is no-If you, the defender, are in control of a temple and there is a battle where the attacker wins but all of his units are killed AND all your units are killed, who controls the temple? Same applies if the attacker loses but all the defender's units are killed.

See answer to first question. If there are no units there, then no one is in control and the VP token goes back to the temple.

dracoalien007 wrote:
3. Just to clarify, if the attacker loses but totally kills the defender (or vice versa) they have to leave the area correct? ( I know I could find this quickly, but wanted to ask anyway)

Yes. See the Retreat rule on page 7.

But what is a little confusing and not in the rule book (but can be found in these forums and the FAQ) is that if the WINNER has no units left then the winner does not get a VP and the loser does not have to retreat.
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Chris K.
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dracoalien007 wrote:


1. Do you have to have a unit present to keep the temporary victory point for a temple? I know you do for a pyramid.




Only if it's not your own Pyramid. In your own city you keep the temp victory point even without units in the space.
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Benoît Delcorps
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dracoalien007 wrote:

1. Do you have to have a unit present to keep the temporary victory point for a temple? I know you do for a pyramid.


Yes ! From the rules (page 7) : To control a temple, the player must have at least one unit on it. When there is no unit left on the temple, the player should give back the corresponding temporary VP.

But beware, this is not the case for the pyramids in your own city : you don't have to have an unit with the pyramid in your own city to control it. Of course, you need at least one unit to control an opponent's pyramid.

dracoalien007 wrote:

2. Also, if the answer to the first question is no-If you, the defender, are in control of a temple and there is a battle where the attacker wins but all of his units are killed AND all your units are killed, who controls the temple? Same applies if the attacker loses but all the defender's units are killed.


The answer was yes, so in your example, nobody controls the temple anymore, and the temporary VP returns on the temple space on the board.

dracoalien007 wrote:

3. Just to clarify, if the attacker loses but totally kills the defender (or vice versa) they have to leave the area correct? ( I know I could find this quickly, but wanted to ask anyway)


Well, if you follow the rules :

page 6 wrote:
-It is possible for the winner to lose all of his units. He is still the winner, even if the defender has survivors left.

page 6 wrote:
-If the attacker wins the battle, and has at least one unit left, he gains a permanent Battle VP.


So, no permanent VP if the attacker hasn't at least one unit remaining.

page 7 wrote:
-The defeated player must decide between recalling his troop (see below), or retreating. If he decides to retreat, the battle’s winner has to choose the adjacent space, free of any units, to
where the opponent’s troop will be repelled. If there is no adjacent space with no units on it, then retreat isn’t possible.


So, if you follow these rules, if the attacker wins the battle, but looses all of his units, he still is the winner, so the defeated palyer should either recall his defeated troop or retreat it (if possible) to an adjacent space of the winner choice free of any units. The temple temporary VP should then, according to the rule stated in q.1, return to the board.

BUT indeed, the "offical FAQ" in the files section goes against this :

FAQ page 5 wrote:
-If the winner of a battle has no units left but the loser does, what happens?
The winner of the battle does not receive a VP, and he does not retreat the losing units. The loser can choose to either recall units or stay in the current space.


So if you follow the "offical" FAQ instead of the rules, the defeated unit shouldn't have to retreat or recall, and could stay on the temple space and thus keep the temporary VP.


A clarification from the publisher/designer would be welcome !

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BARIOT Jacques
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hi,

The FAQ gives the good answer.

This situation is an exception to the general rule that provides that the looser must recall or retreat.

If the attacker looses all its unities, the defender can stay on the temple and keep the temporary victory point.

The attacker is still considered as the winner so that the defender (who lost the battle) cannot benefit some effects linked to victory (like defensive victory, for example).

Hope it's clear.

Have fun playing
Jacques

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Christian Miedel
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Ugh! I hate reading responses. They make me feel so dumb haha.

Thanks so much for the clarifications! Excellent references as well.

We started playing/learning around 9:30 last night and I completely missed some of that. I'm totally clear now.

When we finished up 2 hours later I started trying to learn twilight imperium and gave up after reading how many clearly outlined rules I missed in kemet shake

Thanks again!

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