Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn» Forums » General

Subject: Any impressions on strongest/weakest Phoenixborn yet? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Parsons
United States
Kent
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
First, I'll clarify that I'm certain the game is well-balanced. I'm not looking for overpowered flaws or anything, just "new-game, out of the box" power comparisons.

My wife and I played our first game last night - she was Jessa and I was Saria. I feel like the matchup wasn't the best for a first impression for her - Jessa is a little more nuanced with transfering damage, and Saria wants to deck you and make you kill yourself attempting to draw cards, which isn't the most fun way to lose.

So, for our second game I'd like to hand her one of the more powerful options, and maybe take the weakest out-of-the-box one. Just to give her a little edge.

Any matchup suggestions?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Little
United States
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think they are all useful out of the box, but some Phoneixborn are easier to play without prior knowledge of their deck/strategy.

I've only played it once at Origins, but Aradel seemed straight forward. Lots of creature/zerg rush. I played against Noah and my opponent forfeit as he deemed himself too far behind.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C. E. Freeman
United States
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Give your wife Aradel Summergaard. I don't know if she's the most powerful, but, most importantly, she is the easiest to play.

For yourself pick something that will make for a fun match up, that would probably be Coal or Maeoni.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan White
msg tools
I find that Coal has a hard time against Maeoni, I could be missing something. And without testing it I'm betting Jessa will have a much easier time with Maeoni.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skaak
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aradel vs. Maeoni is currently my favorite "first time" matchup.

Aradel is, as mentioned, a very straight-forward hero.

Maeoni is also straight forward, but she works basically opposite to Aradel: where Aradel has hordes of tiny stuff, Maeoni has just one or two really massive bits of nastiness.

The two play to both their opponent's strengths and weaknesses. Aradel can easily block anything Maeoni throws at her (before Hypnotize comes out), but has to weigh that with the need to eliminate her snakes before they can one- or two-hit kill her once Hypnotize hits the board. Meanwhile, Maeoni is desperately trying to keep her creatures alive for a turn because the darn Blue Jaguars keep locking her down.

Both have cards that let them manipulate their dice without needing to meditate. Maeoni has some of the strongest direct damage in the game, but Aradel has some of the only Phoenixborn healing. Aradel can exhaust all sorts of things, but Maeoni has a card she can pull that will remove all exhaustion tokens from one card.

It's a great balance of strategy and luck, and since neither of them has particularly complicated decks to grok (unlike Coal or Saria, for instance), the back-and-forth starts to feel intentional really early on.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mikael mordai
Denmark
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
What ever one i will play is underpowered and all the others OPed..
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Parsons
United States
Kent
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mordai wrote:
What ever one i will play is underpowered and all the others OPed..


Haha, that's how it can feel with a new game sometimes.

I just want to give her a slight edge while we're both learning the game, just because I have more experience at these kinds of games. She's competitive and enough of a gamer to tell if I'm going easy on her, so I have the best chance of a favorable first impression by giving her the 'stronger' option, best balance of power and ease.

Sounds like Aradel may be the best choice based on comments, thanks for the help so far folks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Clark
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've done a lot of with Noah.

Noah vs. Maeoni - Favor goes to Noah. He can pretty much just blitz the crap out of her. I imagine that if he can do it, so can Aradel.

Noah vs. Coal - Favor goes to Coal. Coal has a lot of really powerful cards that can ping Noah's weaker units.

Noah vs. Aradel - Tie. Noah is great at rushing, Aradel is better. But Noah's demons, when brought forth, are really difficult to deal with as Aradel.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Bennett
United States
Spokane
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CowboyHatValor wrote:


My wife and I played our first game last night - she was Jessa and I was Saria. I feel like the matchup wasn't the best for a first impression for her - Jessa is a little more nuanced with transfering damage, and Saria wants to deck you and make you kill yourself attempting to draw cards, which isn't the most fun way to lose.

So, for our second game I'd like to hand her one of the more powerful options, and maybe take the weakest out-of-the-box one. Just to give her a little edge.

Any match up suggestions?


I played my first game with my wife last night as well. I had her play Aradel, and I took Saria. She destroyed me, as I did not do a good job of getting the card discard engine going. My wife really liked it, and I think Aradel is a first great choice. I think the 8 battlefield really helps a new player as well, as they can have a ton of units in the field.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Parsons
United States
Kent
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Travail29 wrote:
CowboyHatValor wrote:


My wife and I played our first game last night - she was Jessa and I was Saria. I feel like the matchup wasn't the best for a first impression for her - Jessa is a little more nuanced with transfering damage, and Saria wants to deck you and make you kill yourself attempting to draw cards, which isn't the most fun way to lose.

So, for our second game I'd like to hand her one of the more powerful options, and maybe take the weakest out-of-the-box one. Just to give her a little edge.

Any match up suggestions?


I played my first game with my wife last night as well. I had her play Aradel, and I took Saria. She destroyed me, as I did not do a good job of getting the card discard engine going. My wife really liked it, and I think Aradel is a first great choice. I think the 8 battlefield really helps a new player as well, as they can have a ton of units in the field.


With Saria vs. Jessa I was able to distract her archers, leaving her with nothing but really competent blockers, and just deck her with my owls forcing her to discard and draw up repeatedly. Though it's very likely neither of us were playing optimally.

Even with just Aradel's built-in Phoenix ability, it would immediately shut down that Saria turtle strategy by just sniping my owls down out of the sky. That plus the zerging of units sounds like an advantage.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Sanderlin
United States
Maryland Heights
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
danbgamer wrote:
I find that Coal has a hard time against Maeoni, I could be missing something. And without testing it I'm betting Jessa will have a much easier time with Maeoni.


Coal lives up to his name, he's a slow burn. It takes a while for the engine to gain up steam until you can just bash people to death. Against Aradel is difficult because of the Zurg.

I would suggest giving her Aradel because she's the easiest to play and is the best entry level character. I prefer more finesse characters that require situational or creative strategies.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atnier Rodriguez
United States
Monroe
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lordpenquin wrote:
danbgamer wrote:
I find that Coal has a hard time against Maeoni, I could be missing something. And without testing it I'm betting Jessa will have a much easier time with Maeoni.


Coal lives up to his name, he's a slow burn. It takes a while for the engine to gain up steam until you can just bash people to death. Against Aradel is difficult because of the Zurg.

I would suggest giving her Aradel because she's the easiest to play and is the best entry level character. I prefer more finesse characters that require situational or creative strategies.


Nice one!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Caleb Kester
United States
Ankeny
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Play Noah. He's got the most losses in our group as his strategy is more reliant on not making mistakes. Other people in the facebook group also mention he's a tough Phoenixborn to pick up.

Have your wife also try Maeoni. Her strategy is very simple. Protect and build up snakes. It's a great deck and very straight forward. You can feel yourself get powerful as time goes on. It introduces most of the mechanics and it just make sense. You use your mouse to protect the snake and are rewarded for it when the mouse dies and places a status on the snake. Very rewarding deck.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Nicholas
United States
Wake Forest
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've only got one game in so far, Maeoni (me) vs. Saria (wife), but it was close. My wife got Saria's infuriating discard engine going at full steam while I worked on getting my silver snakes pumped up. Just as I got one to a decent level of power, some surprise direct damage after it was already wounded took it out, leaving me fairly defenseless.

It took me several turns to get back in the game, and meanwhile I was having to discard cards more or less constantly and take some big hits to keep my sole silver snake alive. I was absolutely sure I was going to lose badly when she emptied my deck with basically half of her deck left, but by this point I had taken out several of her creatures (including the troublesome violinists) and managed to get my lone snake up to 6 tokens.

She managed to kill my Gilder, and I knew I was about to lose my snake too (she had enough attack power to kill it, and I couldn't take the hit on my Phoenixborn), so I pulled out another snake. Predictably, the now seven-token one died on the very next action, but I killed enough of her units during the counterattack to power up my brand-new snake to useful levels. Hypnotize, attack, Refresh, attack, and it was all over. I went from "oh god oh god I'm dead" to defeating her in the space of two turns, and won with only two health remaining.

Obviously one game with two Phoenixborn doesn't tell us much, but it was certainly a very close and tense game. Can't wait to play again!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I played each deck once, they felt fairly balanced although some are more complicated than others.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scourn1
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Jessa can be very strong but a hard one to use out of all 6. The fact you can give people your puppets is very nasty, especially vs Snake Lady as you could fill her board in very fast and completly shut her down.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
scourn1 wrote:
Jessa can be very strong but a hard one to use out of all 6. The fact you can give people your puppets is very nasty, especially vs Snake Lady as you could fill her board in very fast and completly shut her down.


its not as bad as people think really, the puppets are a side action to damage so you can get rid of them fairly easy, and then summon something in its place. also maeoni can fill up her own battlefield easier preventing jessa from summoning new puppets. I would rather play maeoni vs the puppets than aradel vs the puppets.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
trevor

Missouri
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Klaxas wrote:
scourn1 wrote:
Jessa can be very strong but a hard one to use out of all 6. The fact you can give people your puppets is very nasty, especially vs Snake Lady as you could fill her board in very fast and completly shut her down.


its not as bad as people think really, the puppets are a side action to damage so you can get rid of them fairly easy, and then summon something in its place. also maeoni can fill up her own battlefield easier preventing jessa from summoning new puppets. I would rather play maeoni vs the puppets than aradel vs the puppets.


but it takes 2 side actions to kill them, and only one to summon, so you can fill up their board faster than they can replenish
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
bigGameGeek wrote:


but it takes 2 side actions to kill them, and only one to summon, so you can fill up their board faster than they can replenish


they cost a main action to summon not a side action, and you can only summon 1 per summon card you have played, while they can kill them indefinitely until the round ends or you run out of magic.

it does take 2 side actions to destroy one, but my point was lets say you are maeoni, you have 1 snake, 1 guilder and 1 blood puppet. you do a damage to the puppet, next turn you do another then immediately summon a guilder. you cannot get another blood puppet as your battlefield is full. a vast majority of the ways jessa can kill one of your units is a main action so she couldn't summon a blood puppet in its place before you could resummon something.

also as long as the round continues and you have magic, you can always kill a blood puppet before it deals damage to you. as jessa I find it best to wait till near the end of the round when most of my opponents magic is used and then summon the blood puppet

im not saying they are bad I think its a great card, for several reasons but using them to clog up maeoni's battlefield
works but its not as useful or easy in practice as people are making it out to be.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Rupp
United States
Marion
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Klaxas wrote:
bigGameGeek wrote:


but it takes 2 side actions to kill them, and only one to summon, so you can fill up their board faster than they can replenish


they cost a main action to summon not a side action, and you can only summon 1 per summon card you have played, while they can kill them indefinitely until the round ends or you run out of magic.

it does take 2 side actions to destroy one, but my point was lets say you are maeoni, you have 1 snake, 1 guilder and 1 blood puppet. you do a damage to the puppet, next turn you do another then immediately summon a guilder. you cannot get another blood puppet as your battlefield is full. a vast majority of the ways jessa can kill one of your units is a main action so she couldn't summon a blood puppet in its place before you could resummon something.

also as long as the round continues and you have magic, you can always kill a blood puppet before it deals damage to you. as jessa I find it best to wait till near the end of the round when most of my opponents magic is used and then summon the blood puppet

im not saying they are bad I think its a great card, for several reasons but using them to clog up maeoni's battlefield
works but its not as useful or easy in practice as people are making it out to be.


I think you're playing it wrong if you say "You can kill them indefinitely". The side action to do a damage to them exhausts the unit.

Apparently I'm dyslexic. In my defense, the icons are basically the inverse of one another
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rrrrupp wrote:
Klaxas wrote:
bigGameGeek wrote:


but it takes 2 side actions to kill them, and only one to summon, so you can fill up their board faster than they can replenish


they cost a main action to summon not a side action, and you can only summon 1 per summon card you have played, while they can kill them indefinitely until the round ends or you run out of magic.

it does take 2 side actions to destroy one, but my point was lets say you are maeoni, you have 1 snake, 1 guilder and 1 blood puppet. you do a damage to the puppet, next turn you do another then immediately summon a guilder. you cannot get another blood puppet as your battlefield is full. a vast majority of the ways jessa can kill one of your units is a main action so she couldn't summon a blood puppet in its place before you could resummon something.

also as long as the round continues and you have magic, you can always kill a blood puppet before it deals damage to you. as jessa I find it best to wait till near the end of the round when most of my opponents magic is used and then summon the blood puppet

im not saying they are bad I think its a great card, for several reasons but using them to clog up maeoni's battlefield
works but its not as useful or easy in practice as people are making it out to be.


I think you're playing it wrong if you say "You can kill them indefinitely". The side action to do a damage to them exhausts the unit.


No it doesn't.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Rupp
United States
Marion
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


Monday's are hard, mixed up my icons.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Rupp
United States
Marion
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Klaxas wrote:
bigGameGeek wrote:


but it takes 2 side actions to kill them, and only one to summon, so you can fill up their board faster than they can replenish


they cost a main action to summon not a side action, and you can only summon 1 per summon card you have played, while they can kill them indefinitely until the round ends or you run out of magic.

it does take 2 side actions to destroy one, but my point was lets say you are maeoni, you have 1 snake, 1 guilder and 1 blood puppet. you do a damage to the puppet, next turn you do another then immediately summon a guilder. you cannot get another blood puppet as your battlefield is full. a vast majority of the ways jessa can kill one of your units is a main action so she couldn't summon a blood puppet in its place before you could resummon something.

also as long as the round continues and you have magic, you can always kill a blood puppet before it deals damage to you. as jessa I find it best to wait till near the end of the round when most of my opponents magic is used and then summon the blood puppet

im not saying they are bad I think its a great card, for several reasons but using them to clog up maeoni's battlefield
works but its not as useful or easy in practice as people are making it out to be.


Don't forget, even if it dies, it's still a good thing. Jessa can use her power to do 1 wound to the pheonixborn when it dies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Bennett
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rrrrupp wrote:

Don't forget, even if it dies, it's still a good thing. Jessa can use her power to do 1 wound to the pheonixborn when it dies.


thats very true but i was commenting on the "filling up opponents battlefield" strategy, to shut down maeoni. its not really that bad for maeoni.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.