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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Objective Deck created right? rss

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Ben Rubinstein

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Hey all! Just played a 5 player game, and we were all essentially newbs (3 had played once before, but a year earlier).

We used the alternate #1 card (don't remember name... gives CCs?), Assembly, and Imperial 2.

We played the variant where all objectives are visible at start. When we revealed the objectives, we had 7 single point objectives, and 0 double point objectives. That seemed weird to me, so I begged to include a random double point objective, which we did.

I ended up winning due to round-timer running out after 8 turns. I had 8 points: 6/7 of single point objectives and used Imperial 2 twice while controlling Mecatol.

I had almost no chance of completing the remaining two objectives.

Did we set this up right? If we hadn't manually included a double point objective, someone would have had to complete ALL 7 objectives and take Imperial 2 with Mecatol THREE times, and frankly that seems brokenly ridiculous.

Was this session working as intended, or did we create the objective deck wrong?

Thanks!
 
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Ben Rubinstein

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colmmccarthy wrote:
There should be 6 stage 1 public objectives, and 4 stage 2 public objectives (3 + the imperium rex card). If you only had 7 cards then 6 of them must have been stage 1 and the seventh imperium rex.


Isn't it random how many are included? So you could have between 6 and 10 "objective" cards (not including Imperium Rex). Sorry, I don't have these rules in front of me.

Originally we had 7 stage 1 objectives plus Imperium Rex. We then added a Stage 2 objective because we randomly didn't get one.
 
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Martin DeOlden
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Which objectives that are in the deck are random but the number of how many of them is stable.
6 and 4
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Scott Lewis
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The number of cards is definitely not random. If using the base game rules with Imperium, it's kind of random how many you'll actually go through because the game ends when Imperium Rex is revealed, which could make it anywhere between 7 or 10 cards being revealed, but in the base game rules, there are 6 Stage I objectives, put on top of the 4 Stage II objectives (and one of the Stage II objectives is Imperium Rex).

The rules for building the objective deck are on Page 7 in the sidebar in the top right corner.
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Ben Rubinstein

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tawnos76 wrote:
Which objectives that are in the deck are random but the number of how many of them is stable.
6 and 4


But couldn't it be less than 6 and 4 with the Age of Empire variant?

"After creating the Public Objective Deck as normal,
start to draw its cards, starting from the top. After
drawing a card, place it face up in the common play
area, creating a straight line of cards starting to the
left. After drawing and placing the “Game Over” card,
if there are any additional cards remaining in the
deck, place those cards back in the box (you will not
need them).
Now you should have a line of Public Objective Cards
somewhere between 7 and 10 cards long with the
“Game Over” card in the rightmost position."
 
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Ben Rubinstein

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colmmccarthy wrote:
There will always be 6 stage 1 objective cards.

There can be 1 to 4 stage 2 objective cards, depending on where Imperium Rex (game over) comes out.


So we did play it exactly right, and just got unlucky in that Imperium Rex was the first stage 2 objective, which left us with no real stage 2 objective. We added one in ourselves, but we didn't deal them out wrong.

That seems insane to me that with Imperial 2, to get to 10 points, you'd have to get EVERY objective and then use Imperial 2 four times. Even with Imperial 1 you'd have to get every objective and use it twice. Or are the games expected to not go to 10 points, and to end by round timer?

EDIT: I guess I assumed that most games were won by going to 10 points, rather than by round timer. And I imagine the game would be much more tense not knowing when it would end, because the timer is randomly seeded face down.

In my game, with 2 rounds to go, I was up by 4 points. Everyone at the table realized the only way to have a chance at winning was to eliminate me from the game. So for the last two rounds, I just held on to prevent from being eliminated. Probably not in the spirit of the game, but that's how it played out.
 
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Indio Shepard
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Did you not deal out Secret Objectives? Those are 2 points each right there.
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Ben Rubinstein

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Whoops sorry! My brain is already misremembering. We had 6 1-point objectives AND secret objectives. We added a 2-point objective even though we didn't randomly get one.

I won on turn 8, with 8 points, by completing my secret objective for 2 points, 4 1-point objectives, and Imperial 2 twice. If I were to win before the timer ran out, I would have needed either the last two (meaning ALL) of the 1-point objectives, or the 2-point objective.
 
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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When I play with my friends we usually want to have a longer rather than shorter game and we force Imperium Rex out last anyways. How we do Objective cards always seems to change as we house rule to try and get the best rules to fit our group. I have played where Imperium Rex came out first and the game was a lot shorter since the game rounds are very short. I think someone usually wins with around 5-8 points.
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Ben Rubinstein

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Hah, while I like the game, I think I'd want to shorten it as much as possible. I'd definitely play with objectives & scoring variants.

I think I'd rather play to 8 points (without Imperial 1) but have six 1-point and three 2-point objectives out at the start. That way people can plan strategies to the max, and not necesarilly have to hit EVERY objective to reach 8 points.
 
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Roberto Armentia
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I think you misinterpreted the victory conditions. You don't need a specific amount of points to win. You need to have more points than your opponents at the end of the last turn, whatever the number, or reach first the maximum amount of points. With Age of Empire option, the last turn happens when you move the turn token to the objective card previous to the Imperium Rex card.
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Ben Rubinstein

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robertcop2 wrote:
I think you misinterpreted the victory conditions. You don't need a specific amount of points to win. You need to have more points than your opponents at the end of the last turn, whatever the number. With Age of Empire option, the last turn happens when you move the turn token to the objective card previous to the Imperium Rex card.


Yep! I got that, thanks. I guess I just assumed that, like Rex and Game of Thrones, the game would usually end based on someone hitting the point cap rather than the forced ending. It seems like with the setup I had it's nearly impossible for someone to hit 10.
 
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David Damerell
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epilepticemu wrote:
Yep! I got that, thanks. I guess I just assumed that, like Rex and Game of Thrones, the game would usually end based on someone hitting the point cap rather than the forced ending. It seems like with the setup I had it's nearly impossible for someone to hit 10.


Yes. With Imperial I, a lot of VP are harvested from the Imperial Strategy. By using Imperial II you lost most of those.

In a Bureaucracy world, you play to one fewer VP, have an extra Stage II objective, and can delay Imperium Rex turning up if you are not the VP leader (and everyone else should cooperate to stop the VP leader taking Bureaucracy once Stage II objectives are coming out).

Additionally some Political cards add other ways to score VP, and the first expansion adds Artifacts which are yet another; the second adds Support of the Throne, and maybe yet more.

So: depending on the set of rules in play and the order of the Stage II objectives, it may be more or less probable that a player can win before Imperium Rex. As luck would have it, you had a set of rules and an arrangement of the Stage II objectives that made that impossible.
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Ben Rubinstein

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Yeah, it was certainly an odd game! Because I was ahead 3 points, everyone realized that the best bet was to simply eliminate me to give everyone else a shot at winning. Luckily I built a warsun right at the end and even with 3 people attacking me, they couldn't totally knock me out.
 
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