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Subject: What ruins Kickstarter for me rss

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3 words - Stretch Goal Junkies.

They just come out and keep demanding MORE SGs!!!! The result? Games watered down with unnecessary components or untested elements. I am almost at the point of canning Kickstarter all together.

I would say that I am over-reacting.
End rant.
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Josh Chen
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It ended for me when 2 very hyped game on kickstarter played very "stale" when it got into my hands.

Then I started to trust the conventional way of publishing games. I am sure they probably did more play-testing in the developing stage compared to most kickstarter games.
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I am backing High Frontier, and this may be the reason for this thread. The comments in that campaign just drive me batty. So many tears shed over the lack of SGs, its unbearable.
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porkchop_tw wrote:
It ended for me when 2 very hyped game on kickstarter played very "stale" when it got into my hands.

Then I started to trust the conventional way of publishing games. I am sure they probably did more play-testing in the developing stage compared to most kickstarter games.


I am very curious as to which games you are referring too.
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I read comments on Kickstarter saying people are backing games "for the theme" or "for the minis" or both: "200 zombie minis - I'm in!!".

A lot of people seem to be backing games that wont turn out to match expectations.

There are plenty of great, properly playtested games without needing to blind buy on Kickstarter.

It may be different for reprints or new editions of games - at least you know you aren't getting a dud.
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Josh Chen
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Mabuchi wrote:
porkchop_tw wrote:
It ended for me when 2 very hyped game on kickstarter played very "stale" when it got into my hands.

Then I started to trust the conventional way of publishing games. I am sure they probably did more play-testing in the developing stage compared to most kickstarter games.


I am very curious as to which games you are referring too.


In my rated games you can probably spot them. One was really hyped, and the other was hyped due to the art work.
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Kyle A
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squeaky wheel gets the oil.

who would have thought that project creators actually read the comments on their campaign page? and sometimes, they actually oblige the requests!

the nerve...

joking aside, I hear you. I pretty much stick to established games for this reason specifically.
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I've mostly stopped buying ANY games the past couple of years due to not having enough gaming group sessions to play much of anything these days. Even when I was gaming much more regularly, there were too many good/interesting KS bg and bg accessories, let alone bad ones, to sort through that I just never really got into it. Perhaps that'll nudge you in the right direction?


Mabuchi wrote:
I am backing High Frontier, and this may be the reason for this thread. The comments in that campaign just drive me batty. So many tears shed over the lack of SGs, its unbearable.

Well, gotta get my entertainment in now! But hey, it's a 9.69 BGG-rated game!
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ackmondual wrote:

Well, gotta get my entertainment in now! But hey, it's a 9.69 BGG-rated game!


Ya that is good for a chuckle. This is a reprint. They arent messing things around nor adding X number of untested modules. I am confident on this now, I was not before.
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People drop from campaigns when you tell them there won't be any exclusive stretch goals. They'll just wait to get it from retail. I understand the disposition, but it's unfortunate. Especially for the small publishers who won't get to retail without support.
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Right now I am only supporting local game developers if it is a game that I feel like it is a game that I'd be winning to play at least once a year. I just wanna support my people in my local community.
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Bill L
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I like it when the stretch goals upgrade components rather than add them.

Give me cards with a linen finish. Give me metal coins. Give me custom wooden components instead of cubes.

Okay, now I'm just talking about Raiders of the North Sea.

These things can all add onto the wait too, but they're not going to break the game mechanics or ruin what was potentially a sufficiently play-tested game.
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Exclusives are somewhat annoying, but usually they're nothing that I care about anyway.

I only really back projects by designers I know or games I'm already familiar with, unless the concept seems really promising and is something I'd want to support.

I figure, if a game struggles to reach its funding goal, it probably wasn't a good enough concept. If a game easily reaches it's goal, then it will be available in stores (probably cheaper) if it's any good.
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    My problem with Kickstarter is that the publisher gets to really control the message. There's very little insight into most of the games published there short of what they choose to put onto their page. Given that testimonials are the least-trustworthy yet most-trusted forms of information it's just not a good way to pick games.

    I'll be honest, it makes zero sense to purchase a game that doesn't exist yet. But I'll admit to having bought two from Kickstarter in spite of that. They looked very nice.

    As for stretch goals, it's the only GOOD reason to purchase on Kickstarter. I've seen two Kickstarter campaigns stumble and nearly fall due to not having them (and vehemently not wanting to have them) only to offer them late in the cycle to get people to purchase. Long story short -- no good reason to Kickstart something without them.

             S.


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porkchop_tw wrote:
Then I started to trust the conventional way of publishing games. I am sure they probably did more play-testing in the developing stage compared to most kickstarter games.


There are more than enough overhyped stinkers funded through traditional methods.
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I back projects on KS but only after rigorous investigation, that may mean I'll miss out on some good games but on the other hand, I minimize my risk of being disappointed.

That said, I'll back almost anything from Stonemaier Games, they've always shown a high level of professionalism and openness. Plus, their games all fall in my wheelhouse.
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Brendan McGuire
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My kickstarter survival guide is predicated on only one principle.

Back the dream not the idea.

Some of the more rewarding KS I've helped fund were youtube channels which offered no rewards. I like the idea that I helped someone live a dream.

Getting a reward is just a bonus.

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Jerry
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FablestoneDice wrote:
Maybe it's time to stop backing games and start backing dice? They have less of a tendency to disappoint


Three of my longest awaited KS's are dice projects (333, 303, 272 days late...and counting)
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http://www.explodingkittens.com/update27.html

What kills it for me is when the publisher for Exploding Kittens can be faced with a logistical nightmare and get everything done on time and find the time to add extra thing on top of that while "real" game publishers delay their projects by months or even years just to put out an incomplete mess that backers end up being beta testers for.
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Daniel Schulz
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Once you give them the money, they have less incentive to produce a good product. For thousands of years, it's been obvious to most people.

That's what I don't like about kickstarter.
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Nick Bolton
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horrido wrote:
Once you give them the money, they have less incentive to produce a good product. For thousands of years, it's been obvious to most people.

That's what I don't like about kickstarter.


Some of them lose the incentive to produce anything at all with the money raised: Katalyka

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1408711/claimed-exist-more-...
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horrido wrote:
Once you give them the money, they have less incentive to produce a good product. For thousands of years, it's been obvious to most people.

That's what I don't like about kickstarter.

This may apply to some, but I don't think it applies to many. The game I work on (it's a video game, not a board game) wasn't on Kickstarter, but it IS alpha-funded, and I can tell you that having people's money INCREASES the pressure to deliver a good product. Your schedule is under pressure, you have people (some very vocal) demanding updated builds, you can come under scrutiny if you mention spending time on doing anything else.

I'm not complaining, mind you. They paid their money, and they should get what they paid for... our earliest backers supported us before there was even a game to play at all. They were backing a dream, the only tangible evidence of which was a description and some screenshots. There's no way we could have made our game without them, and we don't want to let them down.

Don't get me wrong, it's fine not to like Kickstarter, or to only buy products that are finished (that's my own personal preference too). What I'm taking issue with is the idea that all people care only about money, and don't care at all about the consumer. This is patently not true.
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Brad Miller
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Mabuchi wrote:
3 words - Stretch Goal Junkies.

They just come out and keep demanding MORE SGs!!!! The result? Games watered down with unnecessary components or untested elements. I am almost at the point of canning Kickstarter all together.

I would say that I am over-reacting.
End rant.


3 Words - everything about kickstarter

Or if you prefer: Valley/Radiant/Elusive
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Tom
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I agree with many of these points but what I dislike the most is the rush of some (not most) backers to think there is some kind of conspiracy afloat, and that is why the game is late or why some mistake happened. There is a rush to judgement that often includes an insinuation of intent by the company.

The other problem I have is that producing a game from start to finish is really difficult. The more chrome or specialized pieces the more there is likely to be a problem. Compound this with luck. People almost worship Jamey Stegmaier for his successful campaigns and kudos to him for doing great so far. However, I wonder when the first bad bit of luck happens to him (poor handling of games in China leads to massive warping, something completely not in the game companies/Jamey's control) will people stand by him. Of course how he handles the will help control some of the anger but not all of it. I worry that someone is a hero today only to be the next days villain. I hope when some problem does eventually exist with one of his releases that people will be sympathetic of him and remember all the good he did. I suspect many will be but lets see how loud the mob gets.

I don't think boardgames should be that transparent. I mean do I really need to know the grinding minutia of day two of box folding for every game? I don't care where the game is day two of the board to china. Does having a Facebook update everyday make a game better? It seems to me kickstarter has morphed (or always was) more about style and form than content, and I think there are amazing kickstarter games and terrible general release games but I think kickstarter is similar to watching a family have a public fight at the park during a hot summer day. Its really awkward to watch especially when people on the sidelines join in.
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My problem with KS?

Very little playtesting (glorified beta tester for a 2nd edition 12 months later) and awful, often terrible rulebooks shake
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