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Warhammer: Age of Sigmar» Forums » Rules

Subject: Please explain Warscrolls. rss

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Can someone give me a brief rundown on how this works? I haven't played Warhammer Fantasy since about 2001 or 2002, and the new minis with Age of Sigmar are really nice, but I am reading the 4 page instruction thing and I don't know if I am just missing something obvious maybe?

How do you have a balanced game? I mean, a Warscroll is essentially the unit's roster, right? You need one for each unit type. So how do you have a balanced game, each player just gets a set number of scrolls? Like "We're going to play a 6 warscroll game?"

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Damon Baume
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As written there is no balance, you just each plonk down units until you run out of minis to plonk down or decide to stop.

There are those that are working on ways of trying to create balanced games, for example by limiting the number of total wounds in your army and number of war scrolls.

Here's an unofficial document used by a GW store tournament to create some sort of balance:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Ag...

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Thanks for the reply Damon... it just doesn't make sense to me, how can you handle a tournament or any kind of structured game. Essentially whomever has the largest army wins?

I'll check out the link you sent, thanks.
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jef stuyck
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Metal Slayer wrote:
Thanks for the reply Damon... it just doesn't make sense to me, how can you handle a tournament or any kind of structured game. Essentially whomever has the largest army wins?

I'll check out the link you sent, thanks.


Well, or not be a dick and put that many down but yes there are no official rules for tournaments yet. Since the point system wasn't balanced either, gw decided to remove it.
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Metal Slayer wrote:
Thanks for the reply Damon... it just doesn't make sense to me, how can you handle a tournament or any kind of structured game. Essentially whomever has the largest army wins?

I'll check out the link you sent, thanks.


I dont think GW intended AoS to be a tournament/competitive game as much as a narrative and story-driven game.
That said, Im pretty sure there will eventually be a good system to balance two armies against each other, official or community based.

Im would be much more interested in a campaign system though.
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Rob Arcangeli
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Soulless wrote:
I dont think GW intended AoS to be a tournament/competitive game as much as a narrative and story-driven game.


Exactly that. For the moment (it seems) GW are looking to move Age of Sigmar back to the days of around 3rd edition with narrative scenarios which have the units built into them.

2000pt Pitched Battles may very well be on the way out.
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Jared Voshall
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Right now, there are only two balance points in the game - number of models, and number of units.

With Number of Models, if you're facing an opponent who has 1/3 more models than you do, you can invoke the "Sudden Death" rule, which allows you to choose from a small selection of objectives - such as hold a Terrain piece at the end of round 6, not completely die before the end of round 6, or kill a Hero or Unit before round 6 - rather than the standard 'Kill all enemy models/have the highest % of your starting army still alive' objectives.

With Number of Units, the first player to finish placing their models first gets to choose whether they act First or Second in the first round - and which one you want to go with depends on what you're running (low Move on your guys? Let them go first to close the distance, giving you a better chance to range and engage next turn; high move rates? Go first and get on in there, flanking if you can).

Each warscroll gives you the stat block for a unit - and there is a pretty big difference in power levels between them. Monsters tend to be the most powerful, featuring a boatload of Wounds and attack blocks that can demolish a small force on their own. Heroes and War Machines share the next tier, each giving a solid attack block and being fairly survivable. Units are the low man on the totem pole, typically having fairly poor Attack Blocks (usually 4/4/0/1 (To hit/To Wound/Rend/Wounds) or something similar), and their the only ones that need to worry about Bravery (which is basically free kills for your opponent with a bad roll). Each unit has a minimum Model Count (typically 1, 5, or 10), as well as genarally providing a bonus at certain troop counts (typically 10, 20, and/or 30, depending on the basic power level of the Troops.

Overall, from what I've seen, most Scrolls in a given class are fairly balanced against each other (so, most Heroes are near enough to each other to work, as are most Units (assuming you're fielding some multiple of their minimum value, rather than running equal sized squads at each other). Mostly, it's down to running something about on par with what you're facing, and it appears to work fairly well from there.
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Cracky McCracken
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The warscrolls are basically Army books with a few sample armies at the end.

The warscrolls complete the rulebook. You'll need them to play. It's up to you and your opponent to be grownups about it and field comparable armies i guess.

Once you are severely outnumbered, you can try for a win by achieving an objective from a list of objectives.

The warscrolls for all the old Warhammer armies and the rules are available for free download from Games Workshop's website.
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Tim M-L
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Like probably most miniatures games, there is not a points balancing system.

In addition to what others have said, I heard of some people playing to a given MSRP value of models as a points system. So, you each put $250.00 of stuff on the table, or whatever.
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I have watched a few videos the last 2 nights on youtube and the comments are pretty much the same. Mostly the people like the rules, it is faster played allowing for more games and more active gaming with no long down periods, etc. However, just about everyone I have watched has complained about the balance issue being a problem. It is very difficult go try and estimate what a fair game is when there is no value of any kind.

I like the idea, I haven't played WFB in so long, and the rules were just too much (and edition changes), so this might be a nice way to get use out of some old minis I still have.
 
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Jared Voshall
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I just played my first game, and I think it's fairly well balanced matching like to like - if your opponent runs a monster, you pull out a monster (or something that can deal a ton of single target damage quickly), if they pull out a hero, you bring out a hero. It's not perfect balance - and figuring out what a 'fair unit' is isn't quite clear yet (for example, how many Clan Rats equal a 3 man squad of Retributors?), but it gives you a 'near enough' estimate to get playing with - and sometimes overcoming a touch of inequality can be fun (heck, even a lot of it if you know it's coming and can plan for it).
 
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ad1642
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For a quick game between friendly gamers, use

1. The set-up rules as describe in the Rules, with the sudden death option.

or

2. Agree on a number of wounds, don't be stupid with the number of heros, named characters, monsters or any other kind of nonsense spam.

or

3. Play a scenario as described in the age of Sigmar book.

For strict tournement stuff, the suggestions above may give better results.

Enjoy





 
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Randy
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Metal Slayer wrote:
Thanks for the reply Damon... it just doesn't make sense to me, how can you handle a tournament or any kind of structured game. Essentially whomever has the largest army wins?

I'll check out the link you sent, thanks.


The balance--- including for tourney play-- is supposed to come from the scenarios rather than from the standard point-cost method. Each scenario will outline parameters for how many warscrolls you can field, which types, etc.

That stuff hasn't been released just yet.
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That is interesting and cold be a way to establish some balance. Moving towards a scenario driven game instead of a point driven game, but it is causing a lot of problems for people with no way to set a limit on what they can/can't bring right now.
 
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Matt Price
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timlillig wrote:
Like probably most miniatures games, there is not a points balancing system.



Just out of curiosity, what miniatures games don't have a point system? I don't think I've ever played one. WarMachine, Kings of War, Dust Warfare, Dystopian Wars, Man o' War, AT43, Confrontation, Mechwarrior (clicks), D&D skirmish game, Warhammer Fantasy and 40K, heck, even Rivet Wars has one.

Or am I misunderstanding your post?
 
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Jared Voshall
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mattprice wrote:
timlillig wrote:
Like probably most miniatures games, there is not a points balancing system.



Just out of curiosity, what miniatures games don't have a point system? I don't think I've ever played one. WarMachine, Kings of War, Dust Warfare, Dystopian Wars, Man o' War, AT43, Confrontation, Mechwarrior (clicks), D&D skirmish game, Warhammer Fantasy and 40K, heck, even Rivet Wars has one.

Or am I misunderstanding your post?


Wings of War/Wings of Glory, Sails of Glory, Dreadball/Dreadball Xtreme (granted, these use a Team based balancing system, but still), and I'm certain that there are a number of older historical war games (not Flames of War, but some of the predecessors to it) that are points free, particularly the ones that are scenario based (recreate the battle of X - I realize it's not balanced, but that's part of the fun of it!).

While this was quite common way back when, it is significantly less so now. Which also means that there's a lot less competition for this particular niche (points-free, scenario based large scale war game).
 
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I think the main point here is that pretty much every game I can think of has either a point based system, unit type system that limits what you can and can't use or a scenario driven system that specifically tells you the exact types of things you can have (for historical recreations for example).

I can't think of any game that basically says "field as much stuff as you have and fight it out", that essentially turns it into a "pay to win" game.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the system. It is actually a refreshing change and plays quickly, which is a huge benefit. And for games with my son and friends, there is no problem fielding things that "seem fair" and then going with it. But there has to be some sort of balance added, how can you even run a tournament or competitive game? You can't use pre-determined army lists that have been play tested as balanced, because who knows what the players you will have coming will bring for their miniatures.

My thoughts break down to this: I like the simple system, it is more fun, faster and my son loves it. BUT, everyone I talk to and every youtube video I watch, people always say the same thing "it was extremely unbalanced" and "there were no guidelines for what we could use" and "no point system made it difficult to have fair games.
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Matt Price
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Magius wrote:
mattprice wrote:
timlillig wrote:
Like probably most miniatures games, there is not a points balancing system.



Just out of curiosity, what miniatures games don't have a point system? I don't think I've ever played one. WarMachine, Kings of War, Dust Warfare, Dystopian Wars, Man o' War, AT43, Confrontation, Mechwarrior (clicks), D&D skirmish game, Warhammer Fantasy and 40K, heck, even Rivet Wars has one.

Or am I misunderstanding your post?


Wings of War/Wings of Glory, Sails of Glory, Dreadball/Dreadball Xtreme (granted, these use a Team based balancing system, but still), and I'm certain that there are a number of older historical war games (not Flames of War, but some of the predecessors to it) that are points free, particularly the ones that are scenario based (recreate the battle of X - I realize it's not balanced, but that's part of the fun of it!).

While this was quite common way back when, it is significantly less so now. Which also means that there's a lot less competition for this particular niche (points-free, scenario based large scale war game).


Aha - it occurred to me that yes, a good number of older games didn't have points per se. They're rare now, as you note, but that's right, points based wargame systems are kinda new (ish).
 
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