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Subject: Free Events rss

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Rob Bywater
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Hiya all

I have a question please.

The Sihanouk (No 75) event card is now in play. ARVN & NVA are eligible, and the USA & VC are ineligible - I know eligibility is irrelevant at this point, but please bear with me.

The faction order on the card is as follows: ARVN, NVA, USA, VC.

If ARVN decide to not take the event (US or ARVN free sweep....) I`m assum ing that the NVA then can take it (VC free Rally...then NVA do the same), being the next faction in order, then also allowing the VC to act as well. This would then prohibit the USA from taking the event.

Is that correct? I`m getting myself all confused!!

Cheers

Rob
 
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Adam H
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I haven't got the card in front of me so can't speak as to the text of the card, but...

If ARVN and NVA are 1st and 2nd eligible, then yes of course NVA can choose the event if ARVN passes or chooses Op + Special. If the event specifies that a faction takes an action, that faction takes the action (even if they happen to be ineligible on this particular card).

Note that if an event says something like "Replace 3 VC guerrillas with NVA troops" then the person who chose the event executes the text, i.e. they would choose which 3 VC guerrillas to replace. If the event text says something like "VC places a guerrilla in 3 departments" then regardless of who triggered the event, the VC player would get to choose the departments.

Quote:
This would then prohibit the USA from taking the event


This seems irrelevant. You say that the USA are ineligible on Sihanouk. So whatever ARVN and NVA choose to do, the USA won't have the option to do anything on this card.

Hope that answers your questions.
 
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Rob Bywater
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Here`s the image. It`s a bit big as I don`t really know what I`m doing blush

[url]
[/url]
 
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chuck reaume
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Interesting...

So in this case, the wording seems to be key in that the unshaded (COIN) text states US OR ARVN where as the shaded (Insurgent) text says VC THEN NVA.

So in terms of who gets to take a free action here, since the US is ineligible and the text is saying "or" they are not able to take advantage of the event. However, since the Insurgent text reads "then" that means the VC are eligible for a free rally even though they're ineligible this round?

This seemed obvious at fist but now I'm doing what I do best: overthinking.
 
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Vez A
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Here's the text of 75. Sihanouk from the Playbook (available online at GMT Games for easy cut&pasting of card texts etc.):

75. Sihanouk wrote:
Pursuit operations: US or ARVN free Sweep into or in any Cambodia spaces, then free Assaults in one.

Sea supply and sanctuary: VC free Rally in any Cambodia spaces then free March from any Rally spaces. Then NVA do the same.


Rob, I wonder if you're getting confused over eligibility and how the card potentially sees ineligible factions taking actions?

In the circumstances you describe, if ARVN do not take the event, then NVA will be able to take the event. The US and VC may not take the event as they are not eligible.

Once NVA takes the event, however, then also an ineligible faction may join in on the action as afforded by the card. Hence VC will be able to free rally and march.

There is, however, no sense to saying that anything that any faction does now would somehow prohibit the US from taking this event. This is because US is ineligible right now so they cannot take the event no matter what. The US will be eligible again on the event after Sihanouk.

That said, as with VC above, if ARVN take the unshaded part of Sihanouk, AND choose the US as the one to act it out, then the US will be able to engage in the stuff described on the card even though the US is ineligible.

I hope that answers your problem?
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chuck reaume
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masil wrote:
That said, as with VC above, if ARVN take the unshaded part of Sihanouk, AND choose the US as the one to act it out, then the US will be able to engage in the stuff described on the card even though the US is ineligible.


ok, that's what i thought.

like my wife often tells me, i overthink everything. :)
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reemer wrote:
masil wrote:
That said, as with VC above, if ARVN take the unshaded part of Sihanouk, AND choose the US as the one to act it out, then the US will be able to engage in the stuff described on the card even though the US is ineligible.


ok, that's what i thought.

like my wife often tells me, i overthink everything.


Oh, we've all been there and done that. If you look back at my appearance in the Cuba Libre and FitL forums over the past year or so, you will find a trail of mild to serious confusion, jumping to conclusions and the like!

And yes, none of that will be news to my wife either!
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Rob Bywater
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reemer wrote:
Interesting...

So in this case, the wording seems to be key in that the unshaded (COIN) text states US OR ARVN where as the shaded (Insurgent) text says VC THEN NVA.

So in terms of who gets to take a free action here, since the US is ineligible and the text is saying "or" they are not able to take advantage of the event. However, since the Insurgent text reads "then" that means the VC are eligible for a free rally even though they're ineligible this round?

This seemed obvious at fist but now I'm doing what I do best: overthinking.


Thanks Chuck, I seem to be progressing along that road too!!
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Rob Bywater
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masil wrote:

Rob, I wonder if you're getting confused over eligibility and how the card potentially sees ineligible factions taking actions?



Thanks Masil.

You are correct, I was thinking that the following (5.5 Free Operations) meant that the factions who were ineligible on this card now became eligible. But what I now think it means is that the factions that are ineligible stay ineligible, BUT the faction that plays the event doesn`t become ineligible for the next card, and stays in the eligible box.

Is that right?

That`s a lot of "eligible"!!

5.5 Free Operations
Some Events allow the Executing or another Faction an immediate
Operation or Special Activity that interrupts the usual sequence of
play and typically is free: it bears no Resource cost and does not affect Eligibility (3.1.2, 2.3.1), though other procedures and restrictions
remain unless modified by Event text (5.1.1).

 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Mancspartan wrote:
masil wrote:

Rob, I wonder if you're getting confused over eligibility and how the card potentially sees ineligible factions taking actions?



Thanks Masil.

You are correct, I was thinking that the following (5.5 Free Operations) meant that the factions who were ineligible on this card now became eligible. But what I now think it means is that the factions that are ineligible stay ineligible, BUT the faction that plays the event doesn`t become ineligible for the next card, and stays in the eligible box.

Is that right?

No.

Quote:
5.5 Free Operations
Some Events allow the Executing or another Faction an immediate Operation or Special Activity that interrupts the usual sequence of play and typically is free: it bears no Resource cost and does not affect Eligibility (3.1.2, 2.3.1), though other procedures and restrictions remain unless modified by Event text (5.1.1).

The bit you bolded refers to the "immediate Operation or Special Activity" granted by the Event, not to the Event itself.

The only time a Faction can play an Event without becoming Ineligible for the next card is when the Event text explicitly says so, e.g., unshaded #15 Medevac. The Sihanouk Event texts don't say this; therefore any Faction that plays Sihanouk will become Ineligible.

So:

If the ARVN plays unshaded Sihanouk, they will become Ineligible because they played an Event. Playing unshaded Sihanouk allows the ARVN to select either themselves or the US to first Sweep in/into Cambodia and then Assault there.

If the ARVN select the US to execute these free Ops, the fact that the US are currently Ineligible is completely irrelevant: the US gets to Sweep and Assault because the Event text says so (cf. 5.1.1), and the US's Eligibility status is completely unaffected by executing the free Ops. (This means that if it had been the ARVN and US that had been Eligible for the Event instead of the ARVN and NVA, the ARVN as 1st Eligible could have played the Event to give the US free Ops, and then the US would still be (2nd) Eligible to execute an Op&SA!)

Likewise, if the NVA execute the shaded text, then the VC gets to Rally+March first, without changing their current status as Ineligible, because the Event text says so; and then the NVA get to do their own Rally+March (and will become Ineligible for the next card).

Regards,
Oerjan
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Mancspartan wrote:
masil wrote:

Rob, I wonder if you're getting confused over eligibility and how the card potentially sees ineligible factions taking actions?



Thanks Masil.

You are correct, I was thinking that the following (5.5 Free Operations) meant that the factions who were ineligible on this card now became eligible. But what I now think it means is that the factions that are ineligible stay ineligible, BUT the faction that plays the event doesn`t become ineligible for the next card, and stays in the eligible box.

Is that right?

That`s a lot of "eligible"!!

5.5 Free Operations
Some Events allow the Executing or another Faction an immediate
Operation or Special Activity that interrupts the usual sequence of
play and typically is free: it bears no Resource cost and does not affect Eligibility (3.1.2, 2.3.1), though other procedures and restrictions
remain unless modified by Event text (5.1.1).



The ARVN executes the event but assigns the effect of the event to the US. ARVN goes to ineligible box for next card.

Edit: Ninja's.
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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(Edit: Looks like Rob deleted the post I'm replying to here, but I'll leave the answer in anyway for future readers. The question was essentially which rule it is that allows you to use Events to grant free Ops to another Faction.)

Rule 5.1, 2nd sentence:
Quote:
Unless otherwise specified, the executing Faction makes all selections involved in implementing the text, such as which pieces are affected or which Faction will execute a free Operation (5.5).

In our case, the Event text says:
75. Sihanouk wrote:
Pursuit operations: US or ARVN free Sweep into or in any Cambodia spaces, then free Assaults in one.

Since the Event doesn't specify which of US or ARVN, 5.1 lets the Faction executing the Event choose (in our case the ARVN).

Regards,
Oerjan
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Rob Bywater
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Thanks Oerjan for pointing me in the right direction

Thanks to everyone for helping me understand

Cheers

Rob
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Rob Bywater
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Oerjan wrote:
(Edit: Looks like Rob deleted the post I'm replying to here, but I'll leave the answer in anyway for future readers. The question was essentially which rule it is that allows you to use Events to grant free Ops to another Faction.)


Regards,
Oerjan


Yes I did delete the post. It wasn't showing correctly, so I deleted it with the intention of re-posting it, but you had already replied so I didn't repost as the flow would have been interrupted.

You shouldn't be so quick in replying

Cheers

Rob
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Neal Smith
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Slight change of emphasis while dealing with free events.

If VC have a free event but Cadres capability -2 Guerillas for every Terror event, are in play, then do the removal of Guerillas still apply, for card 50?

I guess I'm asking does the word "free" apply to both the resource cost and people cost, or just the resource cost?
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Just the resource cost.

/Oerjan
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Neal Smith
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Oerjan wrote:
Just the resource cost.

/Oerjan


Thanks, Oerjan

 
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Fred Donoso
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Hey I have some confusion specifically about special activities. If an event card allows free operations does it also allow one of the special activities that go with it?
 
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No. Do exactly as the card tells you. If it wanted to allow an SA, it would say so.
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Fred Donoso
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Thanks. That's what I figured, just wanted to be sure I did it right.
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