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Subject: Greetings from N00b Planet Alpha rss

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The Spleen of Morbius
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Hi,
So I actually really wanted to play Attack Wing because I am a fan of the series. But, my local people don't do it. So I have been playing at home with friends. I like it. But my local store has a night -it is all about X-wing and Armada there. I am likely going to go down next week and give X-wing a go, but I was wondering about building a fleet for a semi-competitive play in that situation. I don't want to collect them all, I was thinking that I might just get in on it by getting a single fleet together and trying to work on the the strategy of that particular ensemble for a couple of months. And it would only be at the weekly meeting. At home I would play Attack Wing! goo (Also the Armada game play looks more my sort of thing as a strategy guy... but the price... I might be too cheap just now, and there are more people doing x-wing)
So, firstly, does that make some sort of sense to put together a single x-wing fleet for that purpose?
If so, could anyone advise me on the most cost effective entry. I was looking through Bob Randall's new player guide. I was looking at Imperial builds and two that caught my eye were:
Ramming Speed! (One Decimator and two Tie Fighters) - I thought this might be able to be built from the base set plus one decimator expansion. But I am unsure if all the associated cards come with just those two purchases.
Also
The one I realllllly like:
Doom Shuttle Swarm.
Love the Lambada just because it looks cool.
What would be my minimum purchases to build a Doom Shuttle Swarm?
Any advice appreciated.
 
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The Spleen of Morbius
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I just found component lists... that isn't going to work as per the Bob Randall Guide. The cards are spread all over. Can I make a satisfactory 100pt build with Decimator + Base Set or preferably Lambada + Base Set?
 
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C B
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As someone who started with Armada, then Expanded into X-wing because not as many people played it (at first)....

I found, in the long run, it's not really much more expensive to be officially (not use proxy cards) competitive in Armada than xwing. Armada relies much more on strategic tactical thinking and in-game decisions than a perfect synergized set of cards/upgrades. With no defense dice there's no easy way out of a bad situation/mauver.

In Armada to get all the upgrade cards and have a very playable set for two and get more playing... (approximate Amazon/Miniature Market $$)

- $65 Base Game (1 Victory Star Destroyer, 1 CR90 Corvette, 1 Nebulon-B, 6 TIE, 4 X-Wing)
- $10 Extra Dice (Needed for upgraded rolls from Star Destroyers and Nebulon-B)
- $15 1 or 2 Neb-B Expansion (With upgrades that don't come in the core set.)
- $15 1 or 2 CR90 Expansion (With upgrades that don't come in the core set.)
- $25 Rebel Assault Frigate Mark-II
- $20 1 or 2 Rebel Squadron Pack
- $25 Victory Star Destroyer (With upgrades that don't come in the core set.)
- $20 Gladiator Star Destroyer
- $20 1 or 2 Imperial Squadron Pack
($215-$285)


X-Wing... to get one of almost everything to experiment and find your list...

- $50 Two Core sets

Rebel Alliance
- $10 X-Wing (With upgrades that don't come in the core set.)
- $10 A-Wing
- $10 B-Wing
- $10 Y-Wing
- $10 Z95
- $10 E-Wing
- $10 HWK-290
- $20 Rebel Aces
- $15-$20 K-Wing
- $20 Millennium Falcon
- $20 Dash (YT-2400)
- $35 Transport (X-wing pilots and upgrades)
- $60 CR90 Corvette - Tantive IV (nice upgrades/crew)

$180-$245 + $50 Cores + Any Imperials

Imperial Navy
- $10 TIE Fighter (With upgrades that don't come in the core set.)
- $10 TIE Interceptor
- $10 TIE Advanced
- $10 TIE Bomber
- $10 TIE Defender
- $10 TIE Phantom
- $20 Imperial Aces
- $15-$20 TIE Punisher
- $20 Slave 1
- $30 Decimator
- $60-$100 Raider (Nice TIE Adv pilot, jury out on the upgrades)

$145-$250 + $50 Cores + Rebels

... And more $$ for Scum Faction ... which I don't know well enough to remember $$ without looking them up. I stuck with just Imperials and Rebels for now as a whole faction can run nearly as much as full Armada setup (before even getting any doubles for tuned squad lists).


This isn't to try to sway you away from X-wing... I enjoy both, have friends that enjoy each. The point is... Get the game you want and don't let the lower per-ship costs fool you, X-wing can be nearly as expansive and easily more expensive if you want it all.
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Dan Roe
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If you're not playing in an official tournament, pretty much nobody's going to have an issue with you proxying upgrade cards you don't own. So if you're just playing casually, don't worry about buying ships just for cards.

In answer to your question, a shuttle and two TIEs isn't going to be enough. You can get to 100 points with a Decimator and two TIEs, but you'll be right on the ragged edge of what's "playable". On the other hand, a fat Decimator and a 3-4 TIE miniswarm is a perfectly cromulent list outside of a competitive tournament. And a Deci, a Lambda and however-many-TIEs-fill-in-the-gap can also be decent.

DoctorDR wrote:
Lambada

I cannot believe I didn't think to use this name for the shuttle. I will now call it nothing else.
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The Spleen of Morbius
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Thanks for that .... that seems like really solid advice. Much appreciated. (The Lambada shuttle - I think it is the one that takes Darth Vader to Carnival de Rio each year... Basically the same as the Lambda but with pink fur lining on the dash)
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C B
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For proxying cards we use the following fleet builder:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/

It allows you to print of a squadron list that includes all the card text on a single sheet (or two for very large lists).

Makes setup nice and quick.
 
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Swampy Crocker
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Route66_LANParty wrote:
As someone who started with Armada, then Expanded into X-wing because not as many people played it (at first)....

I found, in the long run, it's not really much more expensive to be officially (not use proxy cards) competitive in Armada than xwing. Armada relies much more on strategic tactical thinking and in-game decisions than a perfect synergized set of cards/upgrades. With no defense dice there's no easy way out of a bad situation/mauver.

This isn't to try to sway you away from X-wing... I enjoy both, have friends that enjoy each. The point is... Get the game you want and don't let the lower per-ship costs fool you, X-wing can be nearly as expansive and easily more expensive if you want it all.


I'm not trying to swing vote because Armada does seem awesome but your math skips a rather important factor. I'll pre-emptively apologize cause despite my best efforts I'm gonna look like a dink by the end of this:

Armada is a new game without a huge amount of product. X-wing has been out for 3-4 years and is entering the 7th wave of ships.
While X-wing does lend itself to purchasing multiple copies of ships, for casual play this is not necessary. In a tournament setting don't be afraid to ask to borrow needed components(plan ahead if they are not available). Our local TO opens up his kit to new players to help keep them competitive without having to drop hundreds of dollars day one.
Your math is victim to this discrepancy: Xwing has more available products so it will cost more. When/if Armada catches up I assume the cost will be greater. However Armada does not seem to rely on purchasing a giant collection with 4 of the same expansion for one card (I.e. adv sensors with the Lambda). If we compare wave to wave, starting Xwing with only the same number of waves as Armada is only $150-200 and that includes multiples of popular ships.

Now that I'm done being a pretentious know-it-all, let's focus on what's important: both games are fun, have friendly communities and are about what you enjoy. Before buying see if you can find local players to try the game out with and buy what you want.
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C B
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SwampMonster wrote:
I'm not trying to swing vote because Armada does seem awesome but your math skips a rather important factor.


Not really. For jumping in right now... it doesn't matter that X-wing has been out longer. That doesn't change the upfront costs. They both with continue to grow and you'll be continuing to spend money on them. What you are doing is skewing things because x-wing has been out longer. That doesn't change amounts people spend to be competitive, which I thought, was what OP was after. Sure, it's not fair. But that doesn't matter.

SwampMonster wrote:
When/if Armada catches up I assume the cost will be greater.


Only if X-wing doesn't keep coming out with waves.


SwampMonster wrote:
Now that I'm done being a pretentious know-it-all, let's focus on what's important: both games are fun, have friendly communities and are about what you enjoy. Before buying see if you can find local players to try the game out with and buy what you want.


And this was my point you seemed to skip over... it wasn't that X-wing is more $$ than Armada, simply:

They are both fun. They are both not cheap. So, play what you want and don't be put off by the "Armada is more expensive" nonsense.


I've said what I need to, and it looks like OP is more focused on the forbidden dance ("Lambada") shuttle anyway. Understandable with those seductive wings. So I'll take my Armada love elsewhere.
 
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The Spleen of Morbius
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That is awesome that fleet building tool.
I'm learning a lot here. Thanks everyone.
One thing I didn't expect to learn however, is that if you google Armada Lambada you get celtic pet therapy music... like... for real:
http://redmp3.me/15954347/armada-lambada-the-celtic-pet-circ...
 
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The Spleen of Morbius
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What are people's thoughts on a maxed out Lambada Doom Shuttle with two maxed tie fighters and one not so maxed tie? I can get the numbers to a hundred on that fleet builder. I have a lot of sheild upgrades and some stuff giving bonuses if firing from behind the enemy's arc.
Would that be the dance of death? Just not enough individual ships?
 
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The Spleen of Morbius
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This was what I came up with (I do realise I am probably missing at least several important points in my n00bosity):

The Lambada Cantada Armada
100

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
Sensor Jammer 4
Autoblaster 5
Darth Vader 3
Agent Kallus 2
Shield Upgrade 4
ST-321 3
Ship Total: 42

"Backstabber" — TIE Fighter 16
Shield Upgrade 4
Ship Total: 20

"Howlrunner" — TIE Fighter 18
Marksmanship 3
Shield Upgrade 4
Ship Total: 25

Obsidian Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 13
Ship Total: 13
 
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Dan Roe
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The classic Doomshuttle (or as I like to refer to it, the Vaderbus) runs light on upgrades, for what is a pretty logical reason when you think about it - if you're helping your enemy destroy it, you want it to be as cheap as humanly possible.

The strength of the Lambada is that it gives you a whole bunch of hit points and a decent number of red dice for the same price as a Rookie X-Wing. In situations where it and an opponent are flying straight at each other trading dice, it's a monster.

Its weakness is that it has what is literally the worst dial in the game. It's the only ship in X-Wing that can only fire out of its front arc which doesn't have access to the "K-Turn" - the manoeuvre that turns a ship 180 degrees. Worse even than that, its only 90 degree turn is red, which means it can't be performed in consecutive rounds. Seriously, if an enemy gets behind your shuttle it's not a question of IF it'll kill you, only WHEN.

That terrible dial means that you'd struggle to get the best out of Autoblaster, which only works in the unlikely event that you can catch a high-agility target in the shuttle's Range 1 arc. Generally, a Heavy Laser Cannon is a better investment, because it shoots out to Range 3 where the firing arc covers much more of the board so finding a target is more likely.

My build for a high-price shuttle would probably look something like:

Omnicron Group Pilot - 21
Heavy Laser Cannon 7
Fire Control System 2
Gunner 5
Agent Callus 2
Engine Upgrade 4
Ship total 41

Swap out Callus for a Rebel Captive to match your points total if you like, I'm not sure which of the two options I prefer. Fire Control System and Gunner is a nasty combination - if you miss with your first shot, you gain a Target Lock from the FCS then Gunner lets you shoot again. Engine Upgrade gives you access to "free" 45-degree turns every round, and you don't need to worry about taking unmodified attacks because Gunner/FCS.

Generally speaking if you're running a shuttle, to get the best out of it you need to pair it with ships that are dangerous enough your opponent has to commit to killing them first (allowing the shuttle free rein to lumber around taking opportunity shots) or else pay dearly for ignoring them. Backstabber is actually a really good choice in that respect. Howlrunner is often a priority target, but her ability gets stronger the more ships are around her. With only two wingmen her utility is kind of borderline. Maybe for this role Mauler Mithel is the better choice?

I'd love to wedge a fourth TIE into your list*, but I understand why that's not an option. Honestly, if you're going to be running Imperial Big Ship Plus 3 TIEs, the Decimator is a more natural fit as the big target.

(* - So something like the fat shuttle above, plus Howlrunner with Stealth Device and Swarm Tactics and three Academy Pilots. 100 points dead!)

Sorry for the wall of text. Hope it's of some help! If you fancy some further reading, there was a pretty good article about options for building the Lambada on the Fantasy Flight site a while back - https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/3/14/in-defe...
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The Spleen of Morbius
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That is really amazing advice. Thanks a bzillion! This is really helping me get a grasp. Thank you!
 
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