Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Wing Leader: Victories 1940-1942» Forums » Rules

Subject: Escorts, Tallies and Reactions - Timing and Strategy rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Christopher O
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Summer grasses / All that remains / Of soldiers' dreams. - Basho.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This question came up with a play of scenario V03, "Stalingrad Airlift" but can apply to any scenario where there are bombers and escorts.

Hypothetical Situation: An escort is within reaction range of a bomber (in this specific case, a Bf109F flight in K2, with the bomber in I1). An enemy intercept fighter is approaching from behind (in this case, G2).

The escort successfully tallies the intercepting fighter. Per rules revision 9.2.2 it now must change its mission to sweep. The interceptor tallies the bomber.

During movement, the bomber moves first, moving to K1. The intercepting Yak-1 moves next, as it has a tally on the bomber. It dives, adding one MP, and is able to catch up with the bomber in K2 (using 4 MP), and gains a dive marker. The former escort, now in sweep mode, moves next. It is easily able to make it into the K2 hex. A multiple squadron fight ensues.

Now, stop and rewind. If, during the Tally Phase, the escort chooses not to make a tally attempt on the interceptor, it retains its escort status.

Later, during the movement phase, because it is available and still has a Escort mission marker, the escort may make a reaction check, possibly stopping the interceptor before it gets into the bomber's square.

In this situation, it seems that it is better for escorts to not attempt a tally check when enemy fighters are so close.

Question: Is it best strategy and/or the intention of the designer that it is better for escorts to not attempt a tally in this situation (enemy fighter begins close to bombers at scenario start), or have I missed a rule or a nuance?

In our game, we actually had the Yaks attack the lead bomber head on, so in this situation, a reaction check would have not been possible anyway (per errata clarification 10.4). However, before I realized this was the case, I was beginning to think of this question. Once I finished the scenario, I realized that had I elected to set up with a stern approach, the German fighter would have a chance to react if the Yak-1s attacked from behind and did not have a tally (and thus was still on Escort orders).
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
United Kingdom
Ely
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The intention of the designer is that the player has to decide what the tradeoffs are: focus on enemy fighters at the expense of bomber protection, or work at bomber protection.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher O
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Summer grasses / All that remains / Of soldiers' dreams. - Basho.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pilotofficerprune wrote:
The intention of the designer is that the player has to decide what the tradeoffs are: focus on enemy fighters at the expense of bomber protection, or work at bomber protection.


OK, figured as much - just making sure I hadn't missed something.

I think this is a bit of an outlier as usually the interceptors don't set up quite so close and usually the bombers have a little more altitude for the interceptors to claw through.

Again, this wasn't intended as a negative critique of the system, I was making sure I was playing as you intended.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom H
Australia
flag msg tools
badge
Basil Hilder KIA Lone Pine, Gallipoli
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chris,

This was one of the things that really puzzled me during play testing. IMHO it is better not to tally when an escort as if there is are advantages to reacting and in the case of multiple attackers this allows you to react to any of them, rather than a single tallied attacker. You need to weigh this with the possibility of not reacting, or a late reaction though....

We had a pretty rigorous discussion on the playtest forum concerning this aspect of the game, and how it simulates the escort getting carried away and taking off to attack intruders rather than defending the bombers.

Just my 2c.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Taylor
United States
Unspecified
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tomster wrote:
You need to weigh this with the possibility of not reacting, or a late reaction though....

A late reaction has the same result as a tally on an intercepting fighter unit if it reaches a bomber unit: a fight with an interceptor vs. a bomber and an escort. So "no reaction" is the only downside to escort reaction.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Luc Simard
Canada
Longueuil
Québec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rtaylor wrote:
tomster wrote:
You need to weigh this with the possibility of not reacting, or a late reaction though....

A late reaction has the same result as a tally on an intercepting fighter unit if it reaches a bomber unit: a fight with an interceptor vs. a bomber and an escort. So "no reaction" is the only downside to escort reaction.


Wouldn't a Late reaction makes the interceptor the attacker, and a tally make the escort the attacker (as it would move in the space last), though?

(Edited: wrong, as a bomber in the space makes the escort the defender)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Taylor
United States
Unspecified
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jaels wrote:
rtaylor wrote:
tomster wrote:
You need to weigh this with the possibility of not reacting, or a late reaction though....

A late reaction has the same result as a tally on an intercepting fighter unit if it reaches a bomber unit: a fight with an interceptor vs. a bomber and an escort. So "no reaction" is the only downside to escort reaction.


Wouldn't a Late reaction makes the interceptor the attacker, and a tally make the escort the attacker (as it would move in the space last), though?

No, because there is a bomber in the combat. The side with a bomber is always the defender.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Luc Simard
Canada
Longueuil
Québec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rtaylor wrote:
Jaels wrote:
rtaylor wrote:
tomster wrote:
You need to weigh this with the possibility of not reacting, or a late reaction though....

A late reaction has the same result as a tally on an intercepting fighter unit if it reaches a bomber unit: a fight with an interceptor vs. a bomber and an escort. So "no reaction" is the only downside to escort reaction.


Wouldn't a Late reaction makes the interceptor the attacker, and a tally make the escort the attacker (as it would move in the space last), though?

No, because there is a bomber in the combat. The side with a bomber is always the defender.


Upon re-reading the rules instead of going from memory, you are absolutely correct. My mistake.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Janik-Jones
Canada
Waterloo
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Up Front fan, Cats were once worshipped as gods and they haven't forgotten this, Combat Commander series fan, The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me!, Fields of Fire fan
badge
Slywester Janik, awarded the Krzyż Walecznych (Polish Cross of Valour), August 1944
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pilotofficerprune wrote:
The intention of the designer ...

Does anyone else get worried when Lee addresses himself in the third person?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.