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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mortar Fire and Gully Hex Question rss

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Jim Jackson

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Played Scenario 14 the other night and I think that I messed up some rules concerning mortar fire into a gully hex. For some reason, I thought that a mortar could fire into a gully hex even if it was not adjacent. After the game and referring back to the rules, I now think that I was completely wrong.

Using a section of Map 14 to illustrate, here are my questions.



1. The German mortar in K5 can not fire at the Allied units in K1 or J2, because the German units can not see the units in these gully hexes because they are not adjacent, is this correct?

2. If the Germans, assuming they had a radio, were using an Artillery Request (fire for effect) however, Sgt. Biermann could place the Spotting Marker in any of the gully hexes even if he was not adjacent as long as he had LOS to the hex, is this correct?

3. If the German mortar had smoke capability then the German could fire smoke into K1 or J2, is this correct?

4. Due to SSR #1 (Scenario 14), Sgt. Biermann also could not aid the mortar in targeting K1 or J2 because he is not adjacent to those hexes, is this correct?

Finally, another question on SSR#1.
In this Scenario, the Germans activate the mortar, then activate Sgt. Biermann to spot, that activation does not allow Sgt. Biermann then to use his command to activate other units within his command radius, is this correct?

I now believe that I made a rules error by indicating to my opponent that the mortars could fire into the gullies even if not adjacent. I think that I was confusing mortar fire with the artillery's spotting marker.

Overall, I do not think it made a difference in the outcome of the game due to the fact that my opponent eliminated my poor Polish forces one by one as soon as they exited the gullies and attempted to move forward!

Thanks for any help.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Dan Huffman
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1) Correct
2) Correct
3) Correct
4) Correct

Bonus) Correct.

We play with Mortar spotter rules so that Biermann is activated to Fire, and then he can activate a team with a mortar for mortar fire only, as well as adjacent units. However, you got the bonus correct. According to the SSR, the Team is activated first, and then Biermann. Interestingly, you could have a leader activate the team with the mortar who could then activate Biermann. :-)

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Confusion Under Fire
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Falcon2 wrote:


1. The German mortar in K5 can not fire at the Allied units in K1 or J2, because the German units can not see the units in these gully hexes because they are not adjacent, is this correct?



Just for completeness, if the firing unit was at a higher elevation regardless of it being adjacent or not, then the unit would have LOS.
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Antonia
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huffman123 wrote:
We play with Mortar spotter rules so that Biermann is activated to Fire, and then he can activate a team with a mortar for mortar fire only, as well as adjacent units. However, you got the bonus correct. According to the SSR, the Team is activated first, and then Biermann. Interestingly, you could have a leader activate the team with the mortar who could then activate Biermann. :-)


So in the strict scenario rules your ruling would be not legal, right?
The team is activated, then Bierman is directly activated to guide the fire.
Can he use his command ability to activate other units in his command radius to do an independent fire action?

An additional short follow up question: In order to use sprayfire to fire on an additional hex this hex must be a legal target. So when the hex is a gully and I am not adjacent I can not attack it additionally. Is this correct?
 
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Jim Jackson

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Quote:
An additional short follow up question: In order to use Spray Fire to fire on an additional hex this hex must be a legal target. So when the hex is a gully and I am not adjacent I can not attack it additionally. Is this correct?


So, a situation such as this, with German LMG in G3 firing at J3 and attempting Spray Fire at J2 and J3.



Not 100% sure, but; Spray Fire requires that "the two targeted hexes must each:

1. Be within Range of all firing hexes. (Both Allied units are within Range.)

2. Be adjacent to one another. (Both J2 and J3 are adjacent)

3. Contain an enemy unit". (J2 and J3 both contain Allied units)

So, initial requirements are met, however: "For determining Obstacles and Hindrances in intervening hexes, LOS must be checked from all firing pieces to both hexes.

Although the German unit with the LMG has LOS to the actual J2 gully hex itself, the LMG unit can not see (per rule 10.1) the Allied unit in J2, I would guess that Spray Fire is not possible. But I am not sure.

I think that LOS for gully hexes is a bit confusing because to fire at a unit you generally must be able to see that unit, but gully hexes can be seen while the actual units in the hex may not be able to be seen , unless adjacent or at a higher elevation. And of course, units at a higher elevation requires all other rules concerning LOS to apply normally.

Bottom line, I think that the German LMG in G3 can not Spray Fire at the units in J2.

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