Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Forbidden Stars» Forums » General

Subject: Where did I go wrong? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Wes Baker
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just finished up my first game of Forbidden Stars, a four player game that lasted roughly five hours, but was cut short because I needed to stop due to frustration. That's why I'm here, I'd like to see if there's something that we did wrong with rules or if I played poorly. I'm going to detail the game a bit, mention some rules we played incorrectly and try and give a brief summary of what I did and my general strategy (though I'm sure I'll forget some of the details). I'd appreciate any help folks could give as I'd like to give this game a fair shot.

The Setup

We used the starting map recommended in the rulebook and I was the Space Marines. Nothing fancy here.

The Rules

Looking at the rules again, I think there are at least two rules we got wrong:

Quote:
A player cannot choose to deal damage to a routed unit unless all of his units in the combat are routed and he does not have a bastion in the combat.

We misinterpreted this to mean that routed units could not be further damaged instead of meaning that routed units must be damaged once you only have routed units. I'm still a little fuzzy there.

Second rule we got wrong was with bastions and this one is more minor, but maybe a bigger strategical blunder:

Quote:
Bastions cannot be routed nor can they retreat.

We never read the cannot be routed part and didn't realize that they could essentially soak up two damage a turn.

The Strategy

Looking back on it now, this is likely where I went wrong, but some advice would help here. I started off by slowly stretching myself into the nearby systems and planets with the general goal of earning more materiel per turn (roughly 8-9 materiel per round) so I could buy more units and get more upgrades. I mainly turtled and held back, biding my time to attack once I had enough units (at least 3) to branch out and attack, while not leaving any planets uncontrolled.

Early on in the game I used my Space Marine ability to upgrade units in my sectors, often leaving them all by their lonesome instead of shoring them up with additional units. I heavily favorited building buildings and units instead of upgrading cards, and leaned towards upgrading commands instead of combat cards. Around round 4 or 5, I started focusing more on combat cards in an effort to dig myself out of a whole, but that never seemed to help, I still had a whole pile of cards that provided 1-2 symbols while my adversaries were pulling out 2-3 symbols per card.

The Combat

This is where I lost it, both the game and my cool. It felt like no matter what I did, I could rarely win a combat and the only times I could I came into it with any overwhelming force. Every other time, my opponents always had something up their sleeves that would generate a ton of guns or shields while I could muster up one or two additional sybmols that I needed.

This could be in large part because of the lateness of upgrading combat cards, but it felt like the Space Marines were handed crap and told to suck it up.

Help

So, what I'm asking you is where did I go wrong? Was it mostly strategy that I failed at? Should I have been more aggressive and just left planets uncontrolled as I surged forward? Should I have upgraded my combat cards far earlier (which feels a little perscribed to me, if it's nearly required)? Do you think there are any common rules that we totally flubbed?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Silver Robert
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Could you tell us a bit more, perhaps detailing at least 1 combat you remember? It's hard to say why your Space Marines would get wiped out so easily. Space Marines should have a very easy time increasing their number of shields, so if you got yours killed easily, maybe you did something wrong.

Also, did you continue the combat after all your units were routed? The first time we played we thought that combat was over after all units on one side were routed.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wes Baker
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
silverrobert wrote:
Could you tell us a bit more, perhaps detailing at least 1 combat you remember? It's hard to say why your Space Marines would get wiped out so easily. Space Marines should have a very easy time increasing their number of shields, so if you got yours killed easily, maybe you did something wrong.

I'll try and go with what felt like a more balanced combat. I think I had a marine and a scout and my Ork opponent and two of the scout level units and one of the marine level units. He played a combat card with two shield that forces him to reroll his damage dice and I played a combat card with one shield symbol and the option to take two shield or two attack tokens. I think this ended up killing one unit and routing another and I might have routed one of his scout level units. We move onto the second round and he plays a combat card with two shields again since we thought I couldn't take any further damage. I muster up a few damage with my one attack symbol card (carrying over a shield from the previous round), but it's nowhere near enough to get past his four shield symbols and his dice.

Another example is a space combat where my Chaos Marine opponent managed to roll and generate a total of 11 damage by destroying one of his ships (this resulted in both of my ships being destroyed outright). I generated enough damage to route one ship. He went into this battle with one large and two small ships and I had one large and one small ship.

silverrobert wrote:
Also, did you continue the combat after all your units were routed? The first time we played we thought that combat was over after all units on one side were routed.

Yes, we continued the combat with routed units, but just assumed damage went nowhere. It definitely felt wrong, but we didn't see rules to the contrary.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Heck
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Upgrade cards are essential. If they out-upgraded you, then there you have it.

Also, all factions need to take advantage of preemptive strike opportunities and counter-attack opportunities. Even Ultramarines can't just turtle and expect to defend spaces. They're good at it and it helps... But you need to use your order tokens to frustrate attackers as well when in the defensive, while also opening lines of attack.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Booth
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also don't forget tokens DO NOT carry over to the next round of combat. Or in other words: the tokens you earned on the first card played during combat do not stick around for the second card of combat and so on. That was the big mistake we made on our first game and my opponent just dominated with a million tokens on the board by the third combat card. The only thing that accumulates between combat cards is the symbols on the upper left corner of the card.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Silver Robert
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wesbaker wrote:
I played a combat card with one shield symbol and the option to take two shield or two attack tokens.

Which did you pick? Is that the card that lets you look at your opponent's card before you choose?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wes Baker
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
silverrobert wrote:
wesbaker wrote:
I played a combat card with one shield symbol and the option to take two shield or two attack tokens.

Which did you pick? Is that the card that lets you look at your opponent's card before you choose?

Yes, that one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wes Baker
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
theericbooth wrote:
Also don't forget tokens DO NOT carry over to the next round of combat. Or in other words: the tokens you earned on the first card played during combat do not stick around for the second card of combat and so on. That was the big mistake we made on our first game and my opponent just dominated with a million tokens on the board by the third combat card. The only thing that accumulates between combat cards is the symbols on the upper left corner of the card.

Yes, we remembered that rule, but I could easily see forgetting it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Silver Robert
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, but which option did you choose? Two attack or 2 defense?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wes Baker
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
silverrobert wrote:
Yes, but which option did you choose? Two attack or 2 defense?

Likely the two defense since I wasn't going to crack through all of his defense anyways.

He likely didn't route my units here (as I stated earlier), but came back with the two attack card that forces rerolls of defense dice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Silver Robert
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you had at least 3 defense and even assuming the unit killed was the scout and the unit routed was the marine, that's still at least 6 damage (3 for your defense + 3 to kill a scout and wound a marine) your opponent dealt you, none of which came from his card. That's 6 attack dice at 6 dice rolled and he even had to reroll all of his attack dice to get that.

That's some crazy luck there, and as far as strategy goes, there's nothing that beats luck with dice. You were destined to lose.

Disregard that, I'm a fool with the attention span of a goldfish.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1 - Don't turtle. The game is only 8 turns long, turtling is not the way to win. Look at the weakest objective and grab it. Then go after another one. Don't worry about defense excessively, except for a few critical planets (like ones with your factories on them). The winner doesn't have the biggest empire, they have the most objectives in the bag.

2 - Upgrade cards upgrade cards and then do some more upgrade cards. Really, when you build a unit you've just built a unit. When you upgrade your combat deck you've improved every unit you own. I say this as someone who tends to not listen to his own advice and build too many units. Then my son just upgrades the crap out of his deck and creams me.

3 - Then go reread rules. You gotta. The first game is just to get the feel for the thing, then you reread to figure out how to really play.

4 - Are you still fuzzy on routing and dying? Here's a quick primer.
Round 1 -
You got 3 units each with 3 defense. You take 4 hits. You have to assign your hits to a unit. You assign them to your first unit. It takes 3 hits and dies. Cool. You still have 1 hit left over. You give it to the next unit. It takes 1 hit and routs. Cool.
Round 2 -
You got 1 routed and one unrouted unit left. Again, weirdly, you take 4 hits. You have to assign it to any unrouted unit you have first. You do. That dude takes 3 hits and dies. Cool. You got one hit left. You assign it to the routed unit. One hit doesn't kill it, so it just goes on being routed.
Round 3
You got 1 routed unit left. Again, you take 4 hits. With no unrouted units left, you assign the 4 hits to the routed unit. It dies.

Now when you have units with different health ratings, or bastions, things get a little trickier, but only a little. I hope that helps.

I wrote up a fairly detailed battle account which might clarify some things, maybe. The Second Battle of Solanum
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
william nothdruft

Michigan
msg tools
I find that making a mental checklist helps.

1) what do i need to build

2) what upgrades do i need

3) where can i advance.

i run that checklist every turn. so my usual orders goes: dominate, deploy,
strategize, advance ( if i see an opening). remember, you lay down the order tokens in reverse order (e.g. last order you want in the sector is the first you lay down). once you wrap your head around that the game gets easier.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Don
United States
Louisville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd add too that while bastions can't be ROUTED, they can be DESTROYED, so they do not get to "soak up 2 dmg per turn" necessarily.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CARL SKUTSCH
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Agricola, Sekigahara, Concordia, Innovation, COOKIE!!! (and Guinness)
badge
SANJURO: You're all tough, then? GAMBLER: What? Kill me if you can! SANJURO: It'll hurt.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
vdaoine wrote:
I'd add too that while bastions can't be ROUTED, they can be DESTROYED, so they do not get to "soak up 2 dmg per turn" necessarily.

Not necessarily, but quite possibly. If you only take 2 damage, or if you have two damage left over after killing your units, assign it to the bastion. If it works out, you could do that all 3 combat rounds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wes Baker
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
skutsch wrote:
vdaoine wrote:
I'd add too that while bastions can't be ROUTED, they can be DESTROYED, so they do not get to "soak up 2 dmg per turn" necessarily.

Not necessarily, but quite possibly. If you only take 2 damage, or if you have two damage left over after killing your units, assign it to the bastion. If it works out, you could do that all 3 combat rounds.

This is what I was referring to, yes, but thanks for pointing out that they can be destroyed. At this point, any rules reminders are helpful .
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Schutte
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Abuse your dominate special ability to no end, bonus points if you can get cogs and hammers with it.

Use cogs and hammers to buy new units, save your materials for upgrade cards primarily.

Defend nothing unless it has a building, or is worth 3 materials, or is the one system your abusing with dominate.

Attack, Attack, Attack. You should have a chance to grab 1 objective each turn. My last couple games rarely made turn 5 or 6.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
stephen biggs
England
flag msg tools
wesbaker wrote:
Was it mostly strategy that I failed at? Should I have been more aggressive and just left planets uncontrolled as I surged forward?

Correct, as a general strategy, that's how to win FS. The marines may vary that a bit by filling every planet in a key system with bastions. A "key" system I'd define as one adjacent to several of your races objective tokens. i.e. the purpose of the bastions is to create a base for an "aggressive surge".

wesbaker wrote:
Should I have upgraded my combat cards far earlier (which feels a little perscribed to me, if it's nearly required)?

Varies depending on race. As Orks I'd upgrade my combat cards first. As Eldar I'd build ships & wraithguard first. As Chaos I'd either upgrade order cards or build cultists.

Possible mistakes in your first game:

1) Marines are the most defensive of the 4 races. And the game is won by attacking. Until you understand the marine card decks, playing them is an exercise is sitting on the defensive and wondering why you lost.

2) From write up you used the Ultramarine "Dominate" a moderate amount. And that has two frustrating issues. (a) As you spotted you end up with 1-land raider on a planet that started with 1-scout. Since there's only 1-unit you still can't attack without abandoning the planet you started on. (b) It isn't any more cost-effective improvement in you're forces than building new units from scratch. i.e. as a "special" order it's decidedly "un-special".

3) The Marine ability worth over-using is that bastions can be used to deploy units. Filling every planet in a system with bastions, makes it very hard for another race to build factories there. You can subsequently change some of them (at no cost) to cities with the marine "strategize".

4) Against Orks, dominate to gain hammers, use the hammers to build tier-2 ships. The place to beat Orks is in space, not on the ground.

5) Improve you're combat deck. Marines want two types of improvements. (a) All the shield icons you can get. (b) Drop Pods.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom W -
United States
West Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
Well your strategy was pretty terrible overall. That and forgetting the bastion rule means your were good as moldy toast.

1. The only order upgrade that I consider a 'must buy' is the one that lets you build from bastions just like a factory. Then start building bastions all over the place.
2. First combat card you should buy is 'Hold the Line' IMHO. Drop pods is pretty fun too.
3. Then I rush to two cities and get the land raider card that takes away an opponents combat card. It is of course easy to upgrade so you have a land raider in most armies.
4. As a buddy pointed out to me - since units are built faster than they are killed, this game is about seizing fleeting opportunities, despite not having quite enough stuff to do it the way you wanted to.

** another valid Rush is to get a battle barge out. As soon as you have a barge you have parity or better against any other fleet.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.