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Subject: Question Amphibious Assault etc rss

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Brad Pflugh
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Hello,
A few questions before my first game please:
1. In the amphibious assault (sea invasion) section I thin it says the sea zones have to be friendly since the start of the turn in order to cross, but later it says "land after enemy naval units have been cleared" .... that would mean it was not open from the beginning, or does it mean if the enemy moves ships in on there turn to block you? As such, would your ships and planed fight them then the landing I take it?

2. It also says you need one ship in each sea zone you want to go through in order to Sea Invade. So, if I wanted to Sea Invade Southern France from England, I would need a ship in each zone at start of turn, no enemies or I have to remove them in combat, then my army would land down there and fight?

3. In order to get more unites onto Europe once I have a beachhead, I need to use SM, as regular moves will not do it? It says An Army can move from one friendly port to another in waters that are friendly or neutral. Would 1 SM let me move 3 units to a spot, as long as the spot can handle the stacking limit? Does the army need a commander to do this (I'm guessing army can mean 1 unit or several?). Is there a border limit to move units in with a SM when no combat is occurring from a Sea move that is not an attack?

4. Lastly. I believe all major powers keep there resources and factory points separate? As in, England doesn't combine them with the USA then spend them all in England or Russia etc. As such, and if so, with Italy, do they only use there own resources/Factory to build or can they pull from Germany or vice-versa. As in, are the two kept separate. and if a combined German/Italian army takes something, which one gets the resource point to use for PP if such?

Sorry for the questions, just need a little help here! THANKS
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Derry Salewski
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1) There might be boats in the place you're invading.

3) Regular moves will never "do it" when it comes to crossing water. it's always one SM for one unit. Moving three units would cost three points from your card for the turn.

4) Those rules are explained in the rules. Basically, there's some convoys that change things. A middle east country that changes things. Germany can optionally give some to Italy, but not the other way around. You probably want to read the latest rules again.
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Rick Westerman
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To, I hope, add some clarification.

1) You need an already-present-at-the-start-of-the turn, non-moving and uncontested naval unit in each sea zone. Your amphibious assault will take place in a coastal (aka, land) zone. You do not need a naval unit in the coastal area although if there is an enemy naval unit in the coastal area your army units will not be able to land. The enemy naval unit has to be there at the start of turn. If the enemy naval comes in as a reinforcement (on the second phase of the two-phase battle) then it will not block the landing of army units during the first phase of the battle.

2. As I mentioned in #1, the naval units need to be already present in each sea zone at the start of the turn, can not move and must be uncontested during the assault move (not necessarily during the assault combat). Also amphibious assaults can not occur during the winter. For a England to Southern France assault this probably means a naval unit in (1) the Irish Sea or the Channel, (2) Bay of Biscay, (3) South Atlantic, (4) West Med, (5) Gulf of Lyon.

3. As with moving units from the USA to England (over the water) a SM per army unit will be needed to move from England to the European beachhead. Alternatively a unit in the USA could move to the beachhead directly at the cost of 1 SM. No border limit. No commander needed. Only 1 unit per SM.

4. As Derry mentioned, there are basically 5 "pots" of resource/factories: USA, Allied (Britain, France, any Allied minors), Russia (and allied minors), Germany (and allied minors), Italy. Convoys, the Iran passage, and Germany-to-Italy transfers allow some transfer from pot to pot.



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Brad Pflugh
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Thanks to both of you! The rules seem easy, especially with the other Columbia Games that I've played, the mechanics show some similarities. Its just the beach landing that got me messed up. Seems like it will be tough to get guys on the beach at one piece per point, but I guess the Germans can't cover everything, and there are multiple fronts!
Thanks for your time!
Brad
 
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Rick Westerman
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Pitsbrgparatrpr wrote:
Seems like it will be tough to get guys on the beach at one piece per point, but I guess the Germans can't cover everything, and there are multiple fronts!


An assault, at least by the Allies/US in the mid/later part of the game, is likely to include (for 2 command points):

1 infantry
1 commander
1 paratroop
1 air
1 battleship

That is a rather impressive force which is likely to take out a sole German infantry quickly. Assuming that a beachhead can be established then the Allies/US will often have 3 CPs the next turn which can be used for SMs.

Naturally an early assault, say in '42, may be lacking some of the above. The para is likely to be non-existent and the air/BB weak or missing.

I find the assaults to be rather historical. Early weak attack against the weak Vichy forces in Africa succeeds. Later strong attack against Normandy with side air/navy attacks on adjacent area also succeeds. Of course riskier strategies such as an early D-Day can be taken.


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Derry Salewski
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Do submarines stop landings? In a pen?
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Rick Westerman
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scifiantihero wrote:
Do submarines stop landings? In a pen?


Yes, subs do stop landings. But I would argue that if they are in pens then they do not stop the landing. The rules do not explicitly cover this and I suspect that people could read the rules (the two relevant parts are below) in both ways - stop or not-stop.

7.33
Submarine units located in a friendly
Naval Base may claim Double Defense
(pens), but cannot then fire in combat.

7.5
They [infantry and leaders] land immediately after
enemy naval units (if any) are cleared, ...
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Matthew Taylor
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I don't see any ambiguity there at all. The subs are naval units and must be cleared via naval combat. In naval combat in a Naval Base subs can choose to fire or take double defense.
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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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I would argue that subs in pens do not block an invasion. The said subs are in concrete bunkers and choose not to engage in combat. It would seem the most logical conclusion historically.

Gamewise, it would prove to be nearly impossible to invade the area of Brest with two subs in the naval base
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Derry Salewski
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Do the rounds that the boats spend fighting count for the two rounds of the battle? Do the landing troops get shot at as naval targets while the naval battle is happening?

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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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Yes and yes
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Derry Salewski
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Heh. Gonna make my opponent work a little harder for those french beaches next time . . .
 
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Matthew Taylor
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History has nothing to do with it at this scale - in or out of the pens subs or BC's in Brest would not have been relevant to storming Normandy. If you want a historical fig leaf consider the need to use airpower and naval raids to make Brest inhospitable as part of the advance prep. Also, if the Axis view their u-boats primarily as beach defense they won't be troubling the convoys. I would happily take that trade.

mtraadsveld1 wrote:
I would argue that subs in pens do not block an invasion. The said subs are in concrete bunkers and choose not to engage in combat. It would seem the most logical conclusion historically.

Gamewise, it would prove to be nearly impossible to invade the area of Brest with two subs in the naval base
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Willem Boersma
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Has any/ all of this been confirmed/denied by Ron, especially when it comes to subs located in pens. I agree it could be argued either way; at the very least the rules could be more explicit in this case.
 
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Ron Draker
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I thought I answered this question elsewhere, but if not, I agree the rule needs to be clearer. Rick's answer is correct. If the subs are in pens, they are not contesting the beach approaches.

Quote:
Yes, subs do stop landings. But I would argue that if they are in pens then they do not stop the landing. The rules do not explicitly cover this and I suspect that people could read the rules (the two relevant parts are below) in both ways - stop or not-stop.

7.33
Submarine units located in a friendly
Naval Base may claim Double Defense
(pens), but cannot then fire in combat.

7.5
They [infantry and leaders] land immediately after
enemy naval units (if any) are cleared, ...


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Willem Boersma
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Ron D wrote:
I thought I answered this question elsewhere, but if not, I agree the rule needs to be clearer. Rick's answer is correct. If the subs are in pens, they are not contesting the beach approaches.

Quote:
Yes, subs do stop landings. But I would argue that if they are in pens then they do not stop the landing. The rules do not explicitly cover this and I suspect that people could read the rules (the two relevant parts are below) in both ways - stop or not-stop.

7.33
Submarine units located in a friendly
Naval Base may claim Double Defense
(pens), but cannot then fire in combat.

7.5
They [infantry and leaders] land immediately after
enemy naval units (if any) are cleared, ...




OK. So if they do not stop the landings and the landings are a success, what happens to any subs located in pens? Are they automatically destroyed?
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Tom Johnston
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makes no sense to me..if you don't clear the ship in two rounds, can you use the leader to extend battle, or go home? and if sea zone behind is now contested, do all units die??
 
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