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Board Game: T.I.M.E Stories
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Subject: Does the game come with a "story" rss

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Enon Sci
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Muemmelmann wrote:
I just want the game to be really good, then short is ok. I have spent that ammount on a videogame that is played within the same time and not regretted it. I have also bought plenty of other games that I have not played 6-8 hours.
Point one: video game analogy fails as most video games give at *least* 6-10 hours of play, and the buzzword of the last decade has been replayability (whether that be New Game+ modes in arcade titles, or variable forks in outcome).

Point two: "I have also bought plenty of other games that I have not played 6-8 hours." -- the issue isn't how much you get, but how much you could potentially get.

Nobody buys a soda, pours out half of it and then complains they were short changed on product. However, if you bought a soda and found half the can was empty, you'd be pissed. If you purchased a game and didn't get 6 hours out of it (3~6 plays), that game probably sucked and was ultimately a mistaken purchase. The analogy only makes sense if you can point out a game you enjoyed, but never got more than 1-2 plays out of, and have no desire for more (without shelling out money).

The desire for more is an important element of the equation.
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grouik wrote:
JBMoby wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but with those examples, I see no reason to pursue T.I.M.E. Stories.
To be clear I understand perfectly. And it was my first reaction too.
I would prefer to pay 60 to 65 euros to have a base game with 3 stories.
But... I played the game and fell in love with it. So did my friends.
So what you should do is wait. We in France, will get the game before you guys. Just wait for our reviews and comments.
It sounds like a lot of fun. Like I said, with 3 other people, everyone could chip in for the experience. Like everyone buying their own ticket at the movies.

You see the movie once and you know how it ends.

I'd pay $9-12 for a seat at the table. I just won't buy the game on my own.
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grouik wrote:
Jeremy_LH wrote:
Damn, everything about this game sounded so intriguing, but no replay value in the base game, and the cost of the expansions are pretty much a deal killer for me.
Think of it as Pathfinder or Consulting Detective. Or more simply a Role playing game with the base book and one scenario. :D
grouik wrote:
Jeremy_LH wrote:
Damn, everything about this game sounded so intriguing, but no replay value in the base game, and the cost of the expansions are pretty much a deal killer for me.
Think of it as Pathfinder or Consulting Detective. Or more simply a Role playing game with the base book and one scenario. :D
Just a few examples of other scenario based games on the market:

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set had 8 scenarios in the base game box. Every base set since then has had 10. Each scenario lasts about 60-90 minutes and is replay able.

Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: The Thames Murders & Other Cases comes with 10 scenarios, according to this thread. I have only played the first, but I worked on it over the course of 3 weeks. Having someone else read the quiz answers so you don't spoil it for yourself if you guessed wrong is key.

Mansions of Madness comes with 5 scenarios in the base game box. Each is designed to be replayable, with 3 possible objectives per scenario, but a lot of people have found it less replayable than that. Still, it is at least 5 scenarios' worth.

Tragedy Looper comes with 10 scenarios. While they can't be replayed by the same group, the owner could play them as the mastermind with various groups of investigators.

I am happy to see that I am in the majority in considering this overpriced for 1 non-replayable scenario. I would happily pay this price for 3 scenarios, or pay less for 1 scenario, but this combination is making me really question my plans to purchase the game, which I had been looking forward to for a while.
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Hi, Byron,

I won't argue that 45 euros is a lot to pay for 3 hours of play. But I think your comparison doesn't work. The amount of work that the creator have to put in a tragedy looper scenario is nothing to compare. It's just a way of organizing objectives. For this reason, there is almost no differences between scenarios.
In Time stories, each scenario is 120 cards, fully illustrated with text on the back. Basically when you choose to speak to someone in a scene for exemple, you turn back the card and what happens is explained. It's kind of a point and click adventure ( if I understood it correctly). So each scenario is not replayable as a point and click is not: once you know all the move and the puzzles there is a little incentive to play it again, or just to play along with friends and having them discover the game.
What I want to say is that a scenario is almost like an interactive 120 pages book, fully illustrated. It's more expensive than the scenarios in the other games you cited.

In the end is how you value the 3 hours you should able to suck in the game plus the ability you will have to replay it with new players if you want to share the experience.

I know I will play it once with my family, once with my friends, and probably again with other groups.
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Moshimon wrote:
Hi, Byron,

I won't argue that 45 euros is a lot to pay for 3 hours of play. But I think your comparison doesn't work. The amount of work that the creator have to put in a tragedy looper scenario is nothing to compare. It's just a way of organizing objectives. For this reason, there is almost no differences between scenarios.
In Time stories, each scenario is 120 cards, fully illustrated with text on the back. Basically when you choose to speak to someone in a scene for exemple, you turn back the card and what happens is explained. It's kind of a point and click adventure ( if I understood it correctly). So each scenario is not replayable as a point and click is not: once you know all the move and the puzzles there is a little incentive to play it again, or just to play along with friends and having them discover the game.
What I want to say is that a scenario is almost like an interactive 120 pages book, fully illustrated. It's more expensive than the scenarios in the other games you cited.

In the end is how you value the 3 hours you should able to suck in the game plus the ability you will have to replay it with new players if you want to share the experience.

I know I will play it once with my family, once with my friends, and probably again with other groups.
I get what you are saying, but people are going to counter with a 120 page book doesn't cost $50. I'm in the camp that it will not bother me to pay this much money for short game play, but here is the problem. I am a minority. Even in the video game industry where a 10 hour game cost less than $5.00 STILL gets criticism for being too short/expensive. If the majority feels this is not enough bang for the buck, then the sales will not be there. If the sales are not there, then there will be no extra stories produced and thus nothing for me to buy no matter how much money I want to throw at them.

I do get what you are saying, and I now see there is at least $50 worth of blood sweat and tears in the base game. Unfortunately, it is being presented to a market that is now used to LCG and as such has certain monetary expectations. So, while I am in the same camp as you, I hear the concerns of the majority and acknowledge that they have a legitimate gripe.
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Moshimon wrote:
I won't argue that 45 euros is a lot to pay for 3 hours of play. But I think your comparison doesn't work. [logic]
Yes, that is part of what drew me to the game to begin with. I definitely know the value of a great single play. Video games like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus (2005), and Journey (2012) earned my love even though they are "too short" according to most people, and very little changes in between plays. I would absolutely love to support the concept of this game. But MSRP of $50 U.S. is too much to ask for a single scenario. I can buy a book with full-color illustrations and fancy multimedia elements for $25.

Sculder_8P wrote:
I get what you are saying, but people are going to counter with a 120 page book doesn't cost $50.
ninja

All of the video games mentioned above garnered a lot of praise from critics and fans, but they were bargain-priced at release; none of them cost as much as $50 U.S.

Now, I am willing to pay the current online retailer price of $35 U.S. for 1 scenario and $20 for expansions. That is reasonable. But if I saw the game on the shelf at barnes and noble or my friendly local game store, no way. And judging from the responses on this thread, that price point is going to hurt sales considerably.
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I agree with that.

What I would have love to see is a special price for the base game plus the marcy scenario. Something like 55 msrp for the two scenarios. The price would have been easier to swallow. Right now we are at almost 70 dollars for this !

We will see how well it will sell.
 
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Moshimon wrote:

In the end is how you value the 3 hours you should able to suck in the game plus the ability you will have to replay it with new players if you want to share the experience.

I know I will play it once with my family, once with my friends, and probably again with other groups.
That is the thing, my problem isn't personal, it is sociological.

What bugs me about this decision is the effect it will have on the community (i.e. suppressing sales, at least to some unknown degree more than it otherwise would). Suppressed sales equates suppressed revenue, which then acts as a disincentive to produce more content. Sure, I'll get my paltry one or two scenarios, but if the game doesn't sell then Space Cowboys will prioritize other ventures, even if this game is critically successful.

I can live with suppressed sales due to poor mechanics and bad gameplay press, but depressed sales due to business / marketing decisions is a hard pill to swallow.
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I am not trying to defend space cowboy and I am also hesitant with the price. I'm afraid they didn't have the choice as the game seems to have been expensive to develop. All games are, agreed. But even if the mechanic doesn't allow more than 4 hours playtime, there is nothing they can do to magically cut the cost. It's very possible that it will doom the game. Now wait for last year laugh
 
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So far I've been excited for every Space Cowboy release but this really killed my interest. Sounds like FFG-level money scrounging, my budget can't really handle it, too bad for me I guess. But if you can't create the game you want with reasonable expenses then maybe boardgame isn't the best venue for it? Make that point n click game or something.
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max_s wrote:
So far I've been excited for every Space Cowboy release but this really killed my interest. Sounds like FFG-level money scrounging, my budget can't really handle it, too bad for me I guess. But if you can't create the game you want with reasonable expenses then maybe boardgame isn't the best venue for it? Make that point n click game or something.
I understand our reaction. However one thing is sure. Space Cowboys are game experts, both at game mechanics and game sales. So there must be a good reason. I just wished we knew it...
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Okay so I reread the threads on the price of this game and the scenario. So ... The base game in itself is 20-25 € worht of components. Each scenario is worth 25€. The reason is each card is fully illustrated (from top to bottom) so you pay 120 illustrations. Behind the card is the text. Some scenarios add components. But one of the most costly thing is development time, the writer of the scenario, the months of work on each scenario.
What will happen probably? A lot of players are going to buy the base game, then players are going to exchange the other scenarios once they are done with it (like you can do with consulting detective).
So space cowboys is taking a risk, because of the negative reactions it engenders. However... The game is really great...
So you have all the cards in your hand now. Wait for our first full reviews and you will know if you want to invest or not.
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Just want to chime in saying that, while I understand the costs behind each single scenario, as already explained by others in this thread (illustrations, text, development time, etc.), the main reason because I will buy this game (and I will buy it, no doubt about it) is:
1) because I am a sucker for any kind of time travel theme and
2) the hype generated on how good this game is supposed to be.

With this kind of price, if it had been absolutely any other theme/mechanics, I wouldn't buy it.

Unfortunately, I also agree with the concerns about reduced sales due to the price, mostly because I would love to see further content for the game, but if the price of the expansions should discourage potential buyers, we could not be able to see much content down the line.
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vetinari7878 wrote:
Unfortunately, I also agree with the concerns about reduced sales due to the price, mostly because I would love to see further content for the game, but if the price of the expansions should discourage potential buyers, we could not be able to see much content down the line.
And the answer is... If they do not make money of of the fame they will not create other scenarios... (answer comes from another forum).
 
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Moshimon wrote:
I am not trying to defend space cowboy and I am also hesitant with the price. I'm afraid they didn't have the choice as the game seems to have been expensive to develop. All games are, agreed. But even if the mechanic doesn't allow more than 4 hours playtime, there is nothing they can do to magically cut the cost. It's very possible that it will doom the game. Now wait for last year laugh
You're missing something I said earlier in the thread: it isn't the price, it isn't the one scenarios -- it is the unreplayability of that scenario.

In one of Eric Martin's previews of the game he comments.. oh, bugger it, let me just quote:

Quote:
The med-fan scenario has randomizing elements that take into consideration the characters that you embody, so the game won't play out the same way if you're playing an elf instead of a wizard.
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/29666/game-previews-time-...

Now it could be that the Medieval scenario had playtest issues and needed to be held back -- after all, it isn't even in the announced line-up just yet (Egypt seems to be slated after the upcoming expansion). However, if this were my design, I'd have fought hard to include a randomizing mechanic in the boxed scenario from the start. Maybe not as grand, but something.

All that said, I'm now shutting my yap and will patiently await my copy in October (or whenever Americans will be able to get their hands on this). Speculation can only go so far, and I trust their intentions were pure. In some ways, my complaining was in hopes of getting a sincere response from the developers on this, but I can't expect French developers to be active in this forum (one can hope, but I'm not holding silence against them).

Once I play it I'll have more to say.
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I think that the way the game plays you can't have a real replayability. I mean you can certainly replay a "you are the hero" type book but it's very artificial. So i wouldn't put to much hope in the so-called replayable scenarios...
 
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Moshimon wrote:
I think that the way the game plays you can't have a real replayability. I mean you can certainly replay a "you are the hero" type book but it's very artificial. So i wouldn't put to much hope in the so-called replayable scenarios...
Unless it opens/closes certain options?
 
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Agreed. But it doesn't work for me. I have never been the type of gamer who wants to unlock every door and know every path of an adventure, in any video and boardgame I have played. For me if most of the story is known, it's over.
Nevertheless it depends on the personnality of the player...
 
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Moshimon wrote:
Agreed. But it doesn't work for me. I have never been the type of gamer who wants to unlock every door and know every path of an adventure, in any video and boardgame I have played. For me if most of the story is known, it's over.
Nevertheless it depends on the personnality of the player...
Even if the ending is different?
 
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Shadowrun: Crossfire was a game system that suffered greatly from not having enough in the base game box. The game system itself is decent, but the base game only came with 3 scenarios, one of which required having to gain a ton of experience points first by playing the first two scenarios repeatedly. The developers released additional scenarios for free online, and they have an expansion in the works to add additional cards and scenarios, but at this point the damage has been done and there's probably not much life left in that game system since nobody's buying it.


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grouik wrote:
Moshimon wrote:
Agreed. But it doesn't work for me. I have never been the type of gamer who wants to unlock every door and know every path of an adventure, in any video and boardgame I have played. For me if most of the story is known, it's over.
Nevertheless it depends on the personnality of the player...
Even if the ending is different?
I never played even a video game twice for an alternate ending. But this is me. I ubderstand that one could do that. I would still be happy to replay the game with friends to make them discover the game !
 
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grouik wrote:
Space Cowboys are game experts, both at game mechanics and game sales. So there must be a good reason. I just wished we knew it...
I agree with this, but this expansion milking makes the game seem like yet another con gimmick that will get lots of hype from "industry insiders" in gencon,essen etc. who get to play it without spending a dime, but most likely isn't sensible purchase for someone with limited budget and hopes of getting moneys worth. Something's wrong when FFG out of all companies outdoes you in this area (see: Eldritch Horror, story driven game with 4 replayable scenarios, and its expansions add not only more scenarios but replayability to old ones).. Well, I'm still eagerly awaiting future Space Cowboys games, Splendor and Black Feet are future classics and Elysium nice one too.
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Moshimon wrote:
Hi, Byron,

I won't argue that 45 euros is a lot to pay for 3 hours of play. But I think your comparison doesn't work. The amount of work that the creator have to put in a tragedy looper scenario is nothing to compare. It's just a way of organizing objectives. For this reason, there is almost no differences between scenarios.
In Time stories, each scenario is 120 cards, fully illustrated with text on the back. Basically when you choose to speak to someone in a scene for exemple, you turn back the card and what happens is explained. It's kind of a point and click adventure ( if I understood it correctly). So each scenario is not replayable as a point and click is not: once you know all the move and the puzzles there is a little incentive to play it again, or just to play along with friends and having them discover the game.
What I want to say is that a scenario is almost like an interactive 120 pages book, fully illustrated. It's more expensive than the scenarios in the other games you cited.

In the end is how you value the 3 hours you should able to suck in the game plus the ability you will have to replay it with new players if you want to share the experience.

I know I will play it once with my family, once with my friends, and probably again with other groups.
This will take 6-10 hours of play, per Asmodee reps.
 
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Moshimon wrote:
In the end is how you value the 3 hours you should able to suck in the game plus the ability you will have to replay it with new players if you want to share the experience.

I know I will play it once with my family, once with my friends, and probably again with other groups.
From what I understand (which may be wrong, I will freely admit), once you've played the base scenario, there really is no point playing it again. It's a puzzle with one solution: once you've solved it, you can't really go back and pretend you don't know the solution.
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Jeremy_LH wrote:
Moshimon wrote:
In the end is how you value the 3 hours you should able to suck in the game plus the ability you will have to replay it with new players if you want to share the experience.

I know I will play it once with my family, once with my friends, and probably again with other groups.
From what I understand (which may be wrong, I will freely admit), once you've played the base scenario, there really is no point playing it again. It's a puzzle with one solution: once you've solved it, you can't really go back and pretend you don't know the solution.
I do think the core set is probably overpriced, but let me play devil's advocate on this.

"You can't really go back and pretend you don't know the solution." Except as a social activity or because you enjoyed the storyline. I watched Fight Club, Memento and The Sixth Sense more than once because there's more to those movies than how they end, and it is fun to vicariously experience the big twists when you watch it with someone who hasn't seen it before. I have read The Murder of Roger Ackroyd and know who the killer was and how it was done. In fact, I knew the big plot twist before I read the book the first time. I still enjoyed reading it and will enjoy reading it again in the future. Sometimes, it is fun when you know the solution to something to go back and catch all the clues. I would say it's definitely possible for a person who's completed the scenario to play the scenario again with a new group, as long as that person is careful not to spoil it for everyone and let the group discover things at their own pace. At that point, it is more of a roleplaying game.

But we don't know yet if the writing will hold up to that kind of scrutiny. And Roger Ackroyd in paperback cost me about $5.
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