Alastair Cornish
United Kingdom
Bromley
Kent
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really want this but not with the poor quality cards and miscut components.

Do WK traditionally improve things over time with subsequent printings, or just leave things to rot?

Cheers.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Noble
United States
El Dorado Hills
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They fix some things and break other things. They're really made buying their products a push your luck game.
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GeekInsight
United States
Whittier
California
flag msg tools
Giant Fire Breathing Robot
badge
gfbrobot.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unfortunately, at least with Mage Knight, printings have been less than consistent. So it's not clear that a second print run will fix the issues.

That said, I can tell you that the little differences, while annoying, do very little to impact gameplay. I have all my cards sleeved, so there is no interference there. And the smaller tokens are smaller by just a few millimeters. Easy to tell when closely comparing, hard to tell when the stack of tokens is at the end of the table and you're just drawing from the top. It's certainly not worse than the different shading between base game and Lost Legion.

I certainly wouldn't avoid the expansion entirely out of some concern that the printing differences are so monumental as to significantly mar the gaming experience.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They fixed a couple significant errors after the first printing of Mage Knight. Not all the printing errors, mind you, just tokens that had faulty information. And most recently, at Paul Grogan's urging, a replacement Krang card was slipped into Shades of Tezla.

So will Shades of Tezla have an improved printing down the line? I would be shocked.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian
Germany
Mülheim an der Ruhr
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:
[...] And most recently, at Paul Grogan's urging, a replacement Krang card was slipped into Shades of Tezla.

Uh, why is that? Are there any known errors in the Krang expansion?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phillip James
msg tools
As the others have said, I doubt it. But I also wouldn't let that stop you. Mage Knight is such a fantastic game and the work that Paul and others do is so amazing that it's worth fighting through the components in order to play it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hoshbad wrote:
tumorous wrote:
[...] And most recently, at Paul Grogan's urging, a replacement Krang card was slipped into Shades of Tezla.

Uh, why is that? Are there any known errors in the Krang expansion?

The Krang hero card was originally printed with the wrong back. It was the least consequential printing problem in the entire series, but hey -- it's something!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon Held
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
This shark, swallow you whole.
badge
I'll catch this bird for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad fish.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The quality of the gameplay content far outweighs secondary issues related to component makeup. The sky isn't falling-buy it and enjoy the well-thought out scenarios, new characters and new enemy factions/tokens/bosses.


5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Councilofthevoid wrote:
The sky isn't falling


Could have fooled me!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hero Guy
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I assume that someone at WK has the printing info from the past expansions. Why this info wasn't passed on to the printers is beyond me. I'm not really sure how hard it is to tell someone "Hey, we need component X in dimensions Y. And do them in color scheme Z." It seems to me to be the simplest of things and yet, it wasn't done. When you send the files over to the printers, its not like you do so without the dimensions of components. Otherwise the printer would probably reply with a "Hey, how big do you want these things to be?"

I am at a point where I'd rather WK not produce any more products, then be forced to choose between paying good money for carp products that scream lazy. I'm not buying this expansion, so to me it may have well have never existed at this point. If WK gets their act together and does a reprint with no errors, I'll reconsider my decision.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sometimes I go to print something and I'm like "Oops, I meant to select Actual Size and not Fit to Page." I assume it's that.

Meanwhile, at WizKids...

16 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AxonDomini
United States
Smithtown
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
NorseWiz wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
I am at a point where I'd rather WK not produce any more products, then be forced to choose between paying good money for carp products that scream lazy. I'm not buying this expansion, so to me it may have well have never existed at this point. If WK gets their act together and does a reprint with no errors, I'll reconsider my decision.


Hear, hear! The "oh, well - there's lots of crap components in this release - but I'm still gonna buy it though!" mentality is exactly the reason why we'll continue to see lots of crappy components in board games. If we the consumers are willing to lower our standards then why should publishers make any effort to ensure that their product is solid?

The message should be clear; make a solid product - or we won't buy it. That's what WizKids needs to hear now from all of us who were waiting for this expansion, not "here, take my money anyway!".


I'm torn here. I agree with the sentiment but I have a feeling that what others have expressed it correct - if we don't but it, Wiz Kids will simply stop making games like Mage Knight rather than improving their components. I have a feeling their collectible lines are much more profitable than their board games.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
NorseWiz wrote:
Hear, hear! The "oh, well - there's lots of crap components in this release - but I'm still gonna buy it though!" mentality is exactly the reason why we'll continue to see lots of crappy components in board games. If we the consumers are willing to lower our standards then why should publishers make any effort to ensure that their product is solid?

The message should be clear; make a solid product - or we won't buy it. That's what WizKids needs to hear now from all of us who were waiting for this expansion, not "here, take my money anyway!".

Oh, sure. By standing up and saying "No!" to crappy print quality and component screwups, we could have nipped this whole Mage Knight Board Game thing in the bud. Refuse to buy that first printing -- it really would have taught WizKids a lesson.

Then we wouldn't have had to deal with any of these expansions at all.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hero Guy
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, that's the problem here, isn't it? And maybe it was why I continued to put up with the production issues in the other WK game lines. If a product doesn't sell well, WK will simply think that it is not profitable and stop producing things. It doesn't matter if there might have been other reason for not buying, only that it didn't sell. So instead of getting WK to sit down and find solutions for the shoddy products, they will simply sweep that game aside.

This happened with their weak attempt to revive the MK miniatures game a couple of years back. Instead of having faith in their own IP, they decided it would be a better move to combine it with their Heroclix line and make it a duo-line product. Then brand it as a Heroclix product...and not include the rulebook for Mage Knight miniatures. It was quite the fiasco to say the least. We have not seen another set since and what little info I got, from WK sources, is that the line didn't sell well so there will not be another set.

And if all we do is not buy this expansion, then I'm guessing that the same will happen here. Wk will simply think that the board game is no longer profitable and stop making any future expansions. What we need to do is not buy it and send WK a letter letting know our intent and why we have chosen to refrain from purchasing.

On the other hand, if we just keep buying everything, then WK will think that the mistakes don't really matter and they will have no incentive to try to improve the quality of the manufacturing so we will ever only get products with production issues.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hero_guy wrote:
What we need to do is not buy it and send WK a letter letting know our intent and why we have chosen to refrain from purchasing.


I was with you to this point, but this is ridiculous. If they don't mind that every single fan of the game is griping about their terrible production quality on the internet forums, they certainly aren't going to pay any attention at all to your letter.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jimmy jo jim Bob
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
rotting rubbish heap of a world
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:
Sometimes I go to print something and I'm like "Oops, I meant to select Actual Size and not Fit to Page." I assume it's that.

Meanwhile, at WizKids...



Seriously, what is going on here? Grandma, NO!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Smurf-o-Deth
United States
Brownsville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Wiz Kids sucks. I'm not giving them another penny. If that means they stop making (insert product here), so be it. There are plenty of other publishers that put out games. I don't suspect I'll run out of options any time soon. I'm tired of rewarding half-assery.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hero Guy
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
What we need to do is not buy it and send WK a letter letting know our intent and why we have chosen to refrain from purchasing.


I was with you to this point, but this is ridiculous. If they don't mind that every single fan of the game is griping about their terrible production quality on the internet forums, they certainly aren't going to pay any attention at all to your letter.


Ok, so what is your solution then? I'm doubtful that WK will take the time to read any letters they get as well, but is there a good solution here? Can you give us something better? I am honestly interested in a better solution.

If WK starts getting a few letters every day, maybe one day they will stop and take note. Or...we just stop buying and not send the letters so there is 0% chance that WK will know why this expansion didn't sell.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hero_guy wrote:
Ok, so what is your solution then? I'm doubtful that WK will take the time to read any letters they get as well, but is there a good solution here? Can you give us something better? I am honestly interested in a better solution.


There is no solution. Grin and bear it. Either buy it or don't, depending on whether the game is worth the money to you in its present form or not. But don't pretend you can change it. You can't always win. Wizkids is clearly managed by people who don't care. Anything that anyone does here will have no effect on this.

I also find humor about the situation helps.

I'm much much happier to have a crappy, defective version of the game and expansions in print than to not have it at all. So that keeps everything in perspective.

I thought about trying to figure out who owns the company, and talk to them. But it's hopeless. Wizkids was bought by Topps which was bought by a private equity firm which sold it to NECA. It's part of a corporate behemoth in which board games are not even on the radar of management. If you did succeed in bringing to management's attention how badly the board game publishing is being done, I'm sure their reaction would be to simply shut that whole division down. So what good would that do?
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher
United States
Unspecified
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is a fairly unique situation, in that a company is shipping amazing games with horrible component quality. Usually horrible component quality belies a lack of general effort with a product, but Wizkids does seem to care enough about their brand to hire great game designers and give them relative free reign to make great games. It sounds like there's a complete lack of communication between the design teams and the production people. Refusing to buy the expansion isn't the answer, because we just won't get more Mage Knight expansions. All we can do is lobby people like Paul Grogan to lobby his bosses to take production quality more seriously, buy sleeves and token bags, and enjoy Mage Knight.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SpoDaddy wrote:
Usually horrible component quality belies a lack of general effort with a product, but Wizkids does seem to care enough about their brand to hire great game designers and give them relative free reign to make great games.


This seems a rather generous assessment of Quarriors!.

I would have said it differently. MKBG is a fluke.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BTW, NECA is a licensing behemoth, it's even more sprawling than I thought. E.g., they operate the Graceland tourist attraction that gets a half million visitors a year! They have all sorts of random stuff. They bought Wizkids when it was effectively bankrupt for probably zero plus assumption of debt. Getting them to be concerned about board game quality is going to be completely hopeless.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon Held
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
This shark, swallow you whole.
badge
I'll catch this bird for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad fish.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
Ok, so what is your solution then? I'm doubtful that WK will take the time to read any letters they get as well, but is there a good solution here? Can you give us something better? I am honestly interested in a better solution.


There is no solution. Grin and bear it. Either buy it or don't, depending on whether the game is worth the money to you in its present form or not. But don't pretend you can change it. You can't always win. Wizkids is clearly managed by people who don't care. Anything that anyone does here will have no effect on this.

I also find humor about the situation helps.

I'm much much happier to have a crappy, defective version of the game and expansions in print than to not have it at all. So that keeps everything in perspective.

I thought about trying to figure out who owns the company, and talk to them. But it's hopeless. Wizkids was bought by Topps which was bought by a private equity firm which sold it to NECA. It's part of a corporate behemoth in which board games are not even on the radar of management. If you did succeed in bringing to management's attention how badly the board game publishing is being done, I'm sure their reaction would be to simply shut that whole division down. So what good would that do?


I tried contacting Justin Ziran, president of Wizkids, twice this spring. He never responded. Maybe you'll have better luck in regards to having your complaints heard, but I would put zero dollars on it personally.

Not buying the game makes it much more likely that Wizkids will not make any further expansions in the future. Even having this expansion made, which is a semi-small box expansion, was no guarantee. Cutting into a company's profit margin when it comes to something they're not particularly concerned with making in the first play makes it that much more likely that the Shades of Tezla expansion is the last expansion for Mage Knight that will ever be made. And that is the LAST thing I want to happen.

My hope is that the future will hold more expansions for Mage Knight, and that this won't be the end. When people say that they're not going to purchase the game because of issues with the component quality, this really only helps ensure that Wizkids will stop publishing content for MK because they didn't make as much money off of the latest expansion as they expected to.

I was hoping to see more discourse about the quality of the scenarios, reviews of the new character, or reviews of the factions and details related to them. The cosmetic issues of the color of the card stock or the exact size of the enemy tokens are issues aren't gamebreaking. problems in the least. I've bought $25 expansions that were much worse. Pandemic: State of Emergency, an expansion that cost me $5 more a few months ago, had almost no thought put into new scnearios and amounted to me as nothing more than a cash grab. This expansion was a labor of love made by people who are big fans of the game and wanted to keep Mage Knight (the board game) alive.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff
United States
Natick
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
I want to believe
badge
*distinctive theme song whistle*
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some cars are really fast. Way faster than my Honda, to be certain. But they are unreliable! And expensive to repair, to boot! Yet plenty of people buy them, because it isn't a big deal to them.

Much as there are more cars out there than you will ever drive, there are more games than you can ever play. So if component quality is important to you, place that vote. I'll vote for quality games over rock solid components if the gameplay appeals. I'm used to old games with cards that come in perforated sheets, so nearly PnP quality is not unacceptable to everybody.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher
United States
Unspecified
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
SpoDaddy wrote:
Usually horrible component quality belies a lack of general effort with a product, but Wizkids does seem to care enough about their brand to hire great game designers and give them relative free reign to make great games.


This seems a rather generous assessment of Quarriors!.

I would have said it differently. MKBG is a fluke.


Star Trek Fleet Captains?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.