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Subject: Indie Board and Card Kickstarter Campaigns rss

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Marc Kolb
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I was wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences when dealing with Indie Board and Card KS campaigns. I messaged Travis for an update on some missing parts for the Roar-a-Saurus, but the response I got seemed very rude and kind of childish. This is not the first time that this has happened. Is this normal for interactions with IB&C?
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that Matt
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Each publisher has its own forum, where this kind of discussion usually takes place: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/413167/indie-boards-and-card...
 
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Marc Kolb
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tumorous wrote:
Each publisher has its own forum, where this kind of discussion usually takes place: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/413167/indie-boards-and-card...


Sorry. Is there any way to bump this there?
 
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Rich Keiser
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Nope.

Gotta repost.

wordoftheoracle wrote:
tumorous wrote:
Each publisher has its own forum, where this kind of discussion usually takes place: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/413167/indie-boards-and-card...


Sorry. Is there any way to bump this there?
 
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that Matt
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wordoftheoracle wrote:
tumorous wrote:
Each publisher has its own forum, where this kind of discussion usually takes place: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/413167/indie-boards-and-card...


Sorry. Is there any way to bump this there?

Click the red X next to the subject line at the top of the thread and select "Wrong Forum."

Every time "Wrong Forum" is clicked anywhere on BGG, a small but painful electric shock is delivered to every logged-in moderator. Eventually one of them will come and move it to its proper place.
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Marc Kolb
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tumorous wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
tumorous wrote:
Each publisher has its own forum, where this kind of discussion usually takes place: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/413167/indie-boards-and-card...


Sorry. Is there any way to bump this there?

Click the red X next to the subject line at the top of the thread and select "Wrong Forum."

Every time "Wrong Forum" is clicked anywhere on BGG, a small but painful electric shock is delivered to every logged-in moderator. Eventually one of them will come and move it to its proper place.


Ok. I tried the red X thing. Time to wait and watch. I won't repost this on the IB&C forum because if this is bumped and a new post is made, I'd feel like I was spamming because there's be two forums.
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that Matt
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In the meantime, part of your question might be answered by browsing the existing threads in that forum. zombie
 
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See that photo? That's a tongue in his cheek, that is.
 
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Marc Kolb
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tumorous wrote:
In the meantime, part of your question might be answered by browsing the existing threads in that forum. zombie


You sound like you already know the answer...
 
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Marc Kolb
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tumorous wrote:
In the meantime, part of your question might be answered by browsing the existing threads in that forum. zombie


Wow! Definitely got my answer! I'm staying away from that forum! I love the games IB&C makes and was hoping this was atypical possibly sleep-deprived from GenCon behavior.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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While Travis is clearly as blunt as a well used caber, I've yet to see a real complaint substantiated against the guy. Or a valid concern fail to be resolved (although yes I'm miffed that my freshly purchased Resistance v2 and Expansion have mismatched backs...I accept that he is actually unable to address this and its not a complete disaster)

Without the emails I cannot speculate as to the interaction, but I would expect him to make good on any missing parts.
 
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Marc Kolb
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apotheos wrote:
While Travis is clearly as blunt as a well used caber, I've yet to see a real complaint substantiated against the guy. Or a valid concern fail to be resolved (although yes I'm miffed that my freshly purchased Resistance v2 and Expansion have mismatched backs...I accept that he is actually unable to address this and its not a complete disaster)

Without the emails I cannot speculate as to the interaction, but I would expect him to make good on any missing parts.


The parts have been missing since November. The recent interaction was unpleasant, but I won't publicize it or quote him without his knowledge / permission. I have no doubt that he'll make good on the parts, but he left me, and I think I can assume all the backers, completely in the dark. This kind of a delay is very atypical of IB&C. I love his games and I clearly trust him if I continue to back IB&C stuff (I even bought some extra add-ons with the latest KS projects), but his manner with customers is condescending and public relations consist of him venting his spleen on the public.

IB&C is a great company that needs a PR firm badly. Travis is wonderful at many many things, as his successful company and games can attest, but dealing with customers is not one of them.
 
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wordoftheoracle wrote:
The recent interaction was unpleasant, but I won't publicize it or quote him without his knowledge / permission.

Good thing, because otherwise he might (without your knowledge) remove your pledge from some Kickstarter you're backing.
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Marc Kolb
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nbread wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
The recent interaction was unpleasant, but I won't publicize it or quote him without his knowledge / permission.

Good thing, because otherwise he might (without your knowledge) remove your pledge from some Kickstarter you're backing.


I read about him doing that. Did he actually do that?
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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wordoftheoracle wrote:
nbread wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
The recent interaction was unpleasant, but I won't publicize it or quote him without his knowledge / permission.

Good thing, because otherwise he might (without your knowledge) remove your pledge from some Kickstarter you're backing.


I read about him doing that. Did he actually do that?


Yup he sure did.

I don't have a problem with that myself.
 
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Marc Kolb
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apotheos wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
nbread wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
The recent interaction was unpleasant, but I won't publicize it or quote him without his knowledge / permission.

Good thing, because otherwise he might (without your knowledge) remove your pledge from some Kickstarter you're backing.


I read about him doing that. Did he actually do that?


Yup he sure did.

I don't have a problem with that myself.


Wow. He needs to outsource PR. He really does. IB&C needs great the PR it and their games deserve. Travis can do a great deal, but he can't do everything.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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wordoftheoracle wrote:


Wow. He needs to outsource PR. He really does. IB&C needs great the PR it and their games deserve. Travis can do a great deal, but he can't do everything.


I can see how people are surprised by his tenor.

But it seems to me that he is running the company the way he wants to run it, and is successful.

So...does he really?
 
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When you have all of the internet to draw from, there will be some outliers.

And some people don't mind being a soup-nazi sideshow.
 
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Marc Kolb
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apotheos wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:


Wow. He needs to outsource PR. He really does. IB&C needs great the PR it and their games deserve. Travis can do a great deal, but he can't do everything.


I can see how people are surprised by his tenor.

But it seems to me that he is running the company the way he wants to run it, and is successful.

So...does he really?


Sadly, you make a point. He can be a total barbarian to his customers, but his success tells a story all its own.
 
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Marc Kolb
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scifiantihero wrote:
When you have all of the internet to draw from, there will be some outliers.

And some people don't mind being a soup-nazi sideshow.


That's true. I don't remember all my interactions with publishers because they were all pleasant. I will always remember my interaction with Travis. You're right. Total sideshow effect. We have a whole thread about his charming demeanor right here.

Compared to others, it seems I got off pretty easy with just a rude and condescending email. I'll take that over being dropped from a KS project I've been looking forward to for a while.
 
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Travis Worthington
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wordoftheoracle wrote:
I was wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences when dealing with Indie Board and Card KS campaigns. I messaged Travis for an update on some missing parts for the Roar-a-Saurus, but the response I got seemed very rude and kind of childish. This is not the first time that this has happened. Is this normal for interactions with IB&C?


Marc - you've asked the same question at least 10 times (via message), and many multiples of 10 if I count each time you've added this question in the comments sections of all the different campaigns.

Each time the answer has been the same - I will post an update when the replacements are available so everyone gets the information needed on how to get the replacements. In the mean time, that game can be enjoyed as the missing damage cubes are only needed at max player count and can either be proxied or can be removed for players that are knocked out already.

Sorry if I wasn't super polite in answering your question (yet again), but I guess I've run out of patience in letting you know that you, and everyone else will get the relevant information via a project update when the replacements are available.

Cheers,

Travis
Indie Boards and Cards
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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wordoftheoracle wrote:
a total barbarian to his customers


I think this overstates his actions.

He just doesn't suffer fools. This is not necessarily a wise tactic to build a business, but so far the quality of the products overshadows his acerbic tendencies.

One of the reasons I'm so non-committal here is that every single case of complaint against Travis has, to lesser and greater extents (mostly lesser), smelled of what I like to call "Manufactured Internet Drama". This is all built on a presumption that Travis, as a retailer, should be obligated to take a higher road. I enjoy this being turned on its head much more than I probably should.

He may, actually, be a barbarian. But so far I've yet to see it.
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Marc Kolb
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T Worthington wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
I was wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences when dealing with Indie Board and Card KS campaigns. I messaged Travis for an update on some missing parts for the Roar-a-Saurus, but the response I got seemed very rude and kind of childish. This is not the first time that this has happened. Is this normal for interactions with IB&C?


Marc - you've asked the same question at least 10 times (via message), and many multiples of 10 if I count each time you've added this question in the comments sections of all the different campaigns.

Each time the answer has been the same - I will post an update when the replacements are available so everyone gets the information needed on how to get the replacements. In the mean time, that game can be enjoyed as the missing damage cubes are only needed at max player count and can either be proxied or can be removed for players that are knocked out already.

Sorry if I wasn't super polite in answering your question (yet again), but I guess I've run out of patience in letting you know that you, and everyone else will get the relevant information via a project update when the replacements are available.

Cheers,

Travis
Indie Boards and Cards


Travis - Thanks you for responding here. I appreciate it. Allow me to address your issues:

The last official update we received about the missing cubes was in December. I messaged you, but with no response I had no verification as to any updates in reference to the cubes. Make no mistake. I trust you absolutely. This is not sarcastic. If I did not, I wouldn't be an IB&C first day backer every time! You make wonderful games and no one can take that away from you.

I understand that you have frustrations and you've stated in the past that you don't read the comments section of your projects. The question in the comments were addressed to other backers to see if maybe they started shipping already. You are efficient in speedy production and I really didn't want to miss the package.

Super polite would be answering a message the first time in an appropriate fashion. Polite would be just a short reply. Rude would be the response I received. You run a wonderful KS and your success proves that you can be as rude as you want and still come away a winner. That's fine. Truth is, I'll get over it. I don't have to contact you that often to be a giant fan and day one backer of IB&C games. I love your games and sing their praises and hope they continue to be successful. I know you're a one man company. You've said as much, but I would ask you to please consider taking on a second person. You seem over-stressed and admit to that.

Cheers to you too,

Marc

Proud Indie Boards and Cards Fan
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Marc Kolb
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apotheos wrote:
wordoftheoracle wrote:
a total barbarian to his customers


I think this overstates his actions.

He just doesn't suffer fools. This is not necessarily a wise tactic to build a business, but so far the quality of the products overshadows his acerbic tendencies.

One of the reasons I'm so non-committal here is that every single case of complaint against Travis has, to lesser and greater extents (mostly lesser), smelled of what I like to call "Manufactured Internet Drama". This is all built on a presumption that Travis, as a retailer, should be obligated to take a higher road. I enjoy this being turned on its head much more than I probably should.

He may, actually, be a barbarian. But so far I've yet to see it.


Barbarian is just a turn of phrase. There's no quantitative unit of discourtesy and no quantitative way of measuring it. You'd know discourtesy when you see it. I've already conceded your point inasmuch as it doesn't affect his business, and I'm glad for that! I love the games he produces! This is why I get concerned. I actually demo IB&C games (particularly the resistance) for new or interested gamers and will continue to do so. I'm just concerned that his business practice or sassing customers will one day go too far and will end IB&C. Don't get me wrong: I hope that day is very far off. It just has me concerned. If I didn't like IB&C, my posts would be much shorter and less thought out.

(Eddie, you sound smarter than I am. Can you come up with some sort of example of quantitative measurement of 'suffering fools' like me before such a quantitative measurement of reactionary discourtesy is exacted? How would one measure such qualitative aspects quantitatively that one can make a judgement (as you seem to in your statement, though I may have misread it)? Also, Eddie, if there's enough smoke...)
 
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Travis Worthington
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wordoftheoracle wrote:

Travis - Thanks you for responding here. I appreciate it. Allow me to address your issues:

The last official update we received about the missing cubes was in December. I messaged you, but with no response I had no verification as to any updates in reference to the cubes. Make no mistake. I trust you absolutely. This is not sarcastic. If I did not, I wouldn't be an IB&C first day backer every time! You make wonderful games and no one can take that away from you.

I understand that you have frustrations and you've stated in the past that you don't read the comments section of your projects. The question in the comments were addressed to other backers to see if maybe they started shipping already. You are efficient in speedy production and I really didn't want to miss the package.

Super polite would be answering a message the first time in an appropriate fashion. Polite would be just a short reply. Rude would be the response I received. You run a wonderful KS and your success proves that you can be as rude as you want and still come away a winner. That's fine. Truth is, I'll get over it. I don't have to contact you that often to be a giant fan and day one backer of IB&C games. I love your games and sing their praises and hope they continue to be successful. I know you're a one man company. You've said as much, but I would ask you to please consider taking on a second person. You seem over-stressed and admit to that.

Cheers to you too,

Marc

Proud Indie Boards and Cards Fan


Since you've taken this public I want to make a few comments as well.

I have responded to you privately when asked this question, most recently on June 16th in which I said to you "I will post an update when there is information available." - Your post above indicates that no communication had taken place with you since December of last year.

In July you asked the same question again 4 times, to which I didn't respond as I had already answered you, no new information was available, I was preparing for GenCon and getting everything completed for this year's releases.

When you asked again today, I responded "I will post an update with instructions when these are available, which I think is the same response I've provided in the past to your inquiries as well. Sorry, but multiple inquiries will not speed up the process." Snippy? yes. Rude? not really. It was written in a manner that was meant to convey the information that you had clearly not understood in past messages on the same subject. I will post an update when there is information available.

So yes, I do get frustrated when people ask the same question repeatedly. And I get even more frustrated when they then take to the internet with their pitchforks and torches of misinterpretations and half truths.

And you've also said "you don't read the comments section of your projects" which is not true - I have said, and continue to say that I don't post in the comments section of the kickstarter and ask that people send messages so I can respond to them directly. This is the most effective way to get questions answered and has the added benefit of largely avoiding these types of "discussion" threads from happening.
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