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Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn» Forums » Rules

Subject: Blocking units with Phoenixborn rss

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Ben Reynolds
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When blocking a unit with another unit, the rules specify that blocking can only be done 1:1. However, the rules do not specifically point that out about Phoenixborn. Rather, we are told that the PB is declared as the new target. In an attack with multple units targeting a single enemy unit, does a blocking PB become the new target for the entire group, or does it only block one attacker, in the same way as a blocking unit? There rules don't have any examples or clarification that I can find.
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Tyler Krason
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They soak the damage from all attackers. They are "the new target" of the attack. Which can leave to an interesting situation where the attacker is basically wagering a positive / negative outcome in relation to how many units to send on attack vs how much exhaustion they are willing to give up. Do you attack with a hearty force to ensure victory, or peel it back just enough to entice their PB in to absorb the damage? How much exhaustion can you afford to spend at the expense of damage to your opponent?
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Maleficius
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For rules reference go to p. 9, things essentially only resolve one at a time when attacking a phoenixborn as the initial target.
Here is a little rundown of combat from another thread. The only thing which may not be up to date is placing wounds and destruction possibly not being simultaneous. Phuzzworthy said he's been discussing that alteration with Issac.
 
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Jason Rupp
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ignatiusXIX wrote:
They soak the damage from all attackers. They are "the new target" of the attack. Which can leave to an interesting situation where the attacker is basically wagering a positive / negative outcome in relation to how many units to send on attack vs how much exhaustion they are willing to give up. Do you attack with a hearty force to ensure victory, or peel it back just enough to entice their PB in to absorb the damage? How much exhaustion can you afford to spend at the expense of damage to your opponent?


Keep in mind it can be quite risky to attack with a big group against a pheonixborn. There are abilities like Redirect which will completely negate your attack on the pheonixborn.
 
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Philip Livesey
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rrrrupp wrote:
ignatiusXIX wrote:
They soak the damage from all attackers. They are "the new target" of the attack. Which can leave to an interesting situation where the attacker is basically wagering a positive / negative outcome in relation to how many units to send on attack vs how much exhaustion they are willing to give up. Do you attack with a hearty force to ensure victory, or peel it back just enough to entice their PB in to absorb the damage? How much exhaustion can you afford to spend at the expense of damage to your opponent?


Keep in mind it can be quite risky to attack with a big group against a pheonixborn. There are abilities like Redirect which will completely negate your attack on the pheonixborn.


My understanding would be that Redirect would only redirect one attacker's damage (as they each apply their damage one at a time, not simultaneously), so the opponent would have to choose which unit's damage to redirect.
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Ben Reynolds
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So in other words, units attacking a Phoenixborn resolve combat individually and havwe to be blocked individually but units or Phoenixborn blocking units essentially "taunt" all attackers and soak up all damage?
 
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Jason Rupp
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SashaNein wrote:
rrrrupp wrote:
ignatiusXIX wrote:
They soak the damage from all attackers. They are "the new target" of the attack. Which can leave to an interesting situation where the attacker is basically wagering a positive / negative outcome in relation to how many units to send on attack vs how much exhaustion they are willing to give up. Do you attack with a hearty force to ensure victory, or peel it back just enough to entice their PB in to absorb the damage? How much exhaustion can you afford to spend at the expense of damage to your opponent?


Keep in mind it can be quite risky to attack with a big group against a pheonixborn. There are abilities like Redirect which will completely negate your attack on the pheonixborn.


My understanding would be that Redirect would only redirect one attacker's damage (as they each apply their damage one at a time, not simultaneously), so the opponent would have to choose which unit's damage to redirect.


When you attack a Pheonixborn, all of the damage is added together and then done.

rulebook page 9 wrote:
If the final target of the attack
is a Phoenixborn, total each attacking unit’s attack
values and inflict that amount of damage to the target
Phoenixborn
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Philip Livesey
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rrrrupp wrote:
When you attack a Pheonixborn, all of the damage is added together and then done.


That is only if you target a unit and a Phoenixborn blocks it. When you target a Phoenixborn directly:

rulebook page 6 wrote:
One at a time, in an order of your
choosing, resolve each attacking unit’s damage. If
the attacking unit is unblocked, inflict an amount of
damage equal to its attack value on the defending
player’s Phoenixborn. Then place 1 exhaustion
token on the attacking unit.
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Jason Rupp
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SashaNein wrote:
[q="rrrrupp"]When you attack a Pheonixborn, all of the damage is added together and then done.


That is only if you target a unit and a Phoenixborn blocks it. When you target a Phoenixborn directly:

rulebook page 6] One at a time, in an order of your
choosing, resolve each attacking unit’s damage. If
the attacking unit is unblocked, inflict an amount of
damage equal to its attack value on the defending
player’s Phoenixborn. Then place 1 exhaustion
token on the attacking unit. [/q wrote:


That's a major shame. I wonder if it's on purpose that resolving damage is different for attacking a PB via a unit attack compared to attacking it directly. It's VERY clunky to have it resolve 2 different ways depending on how the attack is declared. I'd be surprised if many people are playing it correctly in both situations.

Thanks for the heads up. I was playing it wrong in the one case.
 
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Sebastian Blanco
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rrrrupp wrote:
SashaNein wrote:
[q="rrrrupp"]When you attack a Pheonixborn, all of the damage is added together and then done.


That is only if you target a unit and a Phoenixborn blocks it. When you target a Phoenixborn directly:

rulebook page 6] One at a time, in an order of your
choosing, resolve each attacking unit’s damage. If
the attacking unit is unblocked, inflict an amount of
damage equal to its attack value on the defending
player’s Phoenixborn. Then place 1 exhaustion
token on the attacking unit.
[/q wrote:


That's a major shame. I wonder if it's on purpose that resolving damage is different for attacking a PB via a unit attack compared to attacking it directly. It's VERY clunky to have it resolve 2 different ways depending on how the attack is declared. I'd be surprised if many people are playing it correctly in both situations.

Thanks for the heads up. I was playing it wrong in the one case.


I agree it's clunky, and I haven't noticed that little detail until now. I'd like to hear the reason why the clunkier solution is the one they went with.
 
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Caleb Owens
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I know I read somewhere that this changed a lot in play testing. I believe it was originally more similar to magic where you were always targeting the opponents phoenixborn and unless other units stepped up to block you would hit their face. I think the combat went through 2 or 3 other iterations as well.

I do agree that this feels kind of clunky and easy to mess up. However I would also argue that the rest of the game is simple enough that they can afford this "clunkiness" in exchange probably for more game space discovery/card development.
 
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