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The Resistance» Forums » General

Subject: Broken? (6 players) [ANSWERED - RULES ERROR] rss

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Joao Pedro
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Hi. Played this game yesterday for the first time, 3 times. We had 6 players - 2 spies - and I was always the spy. The spies always win.

Thing is that some of us felt the game is somewhat broken in favor of the spies. Let me know if this if this is not correct:

- One of the games was tied 2-2 and someone mentioned that the 5th mission was always lost for the resistance because there are 4 players on that last mission.

- Then someone also mentioned that, in fact, both 4-player missions should always be lost for the resistance...

- So, if this is correct, all the spies need is win one of the non 4 player missions and tie 2-2 going into the last mission, as they will always win the last one.

Some of my points might be somewhat confusing - I hope not - but we felt that the game was incredibly unbalanced in favor of the spies. Are we wrong? I would love to read your comments on this, thanks.
 
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Clyde W
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
No, of course the game isn't broken, it wouldn't be so wildly popular.

6p has 4 rebels and two spies. M3 and M5 require all 4 rebels on them to succeed. A lot of people claim that 6p is the easiest player count for rebels in fact.
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sean johnson
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
Six players is a harder player count for the Resistance because the fourth round does not require to fails, and the fifth round requires the good guys to get it absolutely right. This does not mean, the Resistance always loses though.

In my experience in a six player (and often in five player games) that make it to the fifth round what has happened is that one spy has more or less been sniffed out. A couple of resistance members are absolutely sure about one another, but then the other two or three people are unknown. Depending on who the leader is and how it shakes out will depend on who wins. Often the leader will be stuck between picking the final resistance member or a spy. How it goes depends on how good the spy was, or on luck. Either way it is usually exciting.

Six is difficult for the Resistance but it is possible to win, and I do not think it is broken.
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Joao Pedro
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
After reading your comments I noticed what the problem was. For some reason we were playing with a rule that does not exist - that the leader cannot include himself on the mission team.

We made an error that obviously makes everything different.

Thank you, problem solved!
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Simon Kamber
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
hyped78 wrote:
Hi. Played this game yesterday for the first time, 3 times. We had 6 players - 2 spies - and I was always the spy. The spies always win.

Thing is that some of us felt the game is somewhat broken in favor of the spies. Let me know if this if this is not correct:

- One of the games was tied 2-2 and someone mentioned that the 5th mission was always lost for the resistance because there are 4 players on that last mission.

- Then someone also mentioned that, in fact, both 4-player missions should always be lost for the resistance...

- So, if this is correct, all the spies need is win one of the non 4 player missions and tie 2-2 going into the last mission, as they will always win the last one.

Some of my points might be somewhat confusing - I hope not - but we felt that the game was incredibly unbalanced in favor of the spies. Are we wrong? I would love to read your comments on this, thanks.


Are you playing with plot cards?

It is true that a 'pure' 6-player game is difficult for the resistance, but it is not anywhere near broken.

It is, however, also true that the game has a tendency to favour spies when the players are new. So it is likely that some of the imbalance you are experiencing will adjust itself as you get better at identifying spies.

(It is, on the other hand, NOT true that 4-player missions should always be lost by the Resistance. There are 4 loyal players in the game, after all. "All" you need is for those four players to find each other.)
 
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Simon Kamber
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
hyped78 wrote:
After reading your comments I noticed what the problem was. For some reason we were playing with a rule that does not exist - that the leader cannot include himself on the mission team.

We made an error that obviously makes everything different.

Thank you, problem solved!


Aaah. Yeah, that would make it ... quite difficult for the resistance.
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John
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
No, it's not broken. Tied at 2-2 I would expect to have some chance of winning as a resistance player. At this point you have two missions which succeed, if one of those was the 4th mission you can be pretty sure that it was clean (otherwise a spy just passed up an opportunity to win the game). Look at the failed missions - who proposed them? Who voted for them? Who was on those missions? Is there anyone who can't be a spy? e.g. if 1st mission had A & B & 2nd mission had C, D, E and both failed then we know F isn't a spy.
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
Dulkal wrote:
For some reason we were playing with a rule that does not exist - that the leader cannot include himself on the mission team.

Ops - it always pays to re-read the rules after playing. There are at least two games I've played multiple times with a rule wrong.
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Rex Moore
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
clydeiii wrote:
No, of course the game isn't broken, it wouldn't be so wildly popular.


Like A Few Acres of Snow?
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Andrés Alberto García Rois
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
It's not broken. It's very challenging for the rebels, and that's so fun.

The game also has a lot of modules to balance the game in any direction.

For example, my group of friends has became very good rebels,after a lot of plays. So sometimes we need to put modules to help spies, even playing with blind Spies variant! After a lot of games (three years) the game is now a funny challenge to Spies.

 
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mfl134
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I'd change the subject to say Broken? (6 players) [ANSWERED - RULES ERROR]
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
hyped78 wrote:
After reading your comments I noticed what the problem was. For some reason we were playing with a rule that does not exist - that the leader cannot include himself on the mission team.

We made an error that obviously makes everything different.

Thank you, problem solved!
There is another Free Parking-like fake rule being taught around out there that says you can't propose the same mission as the previous leader did. That also breaks the game.
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Re: Broken? (6 players)
orangeblood wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
No, of course the game isn't broken, it wouldn't be so wildly popular.


Like A Few Acres of Snow?
I would argue that game isn't wildly popular, and that any popularity it has is people purposely not spoiling themselves on the broken strategy.
 
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Joao Pedro
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mfl134 wrote:
I'd change the subject to say Broken? (6 players) [ANSWERED - RULES ERROR]


Just changed it, thanks!
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Eugene Wong
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zabdiel wrote:
Ops - it always pays to re-read the rules after playing. There are at least two games I've played multiple times with a rule wrong.


Yeah, I agree. I've played many games wrong. That's why I always try to keep the rules handy. Even last night, a vote turned out 3-3, which means a fail, but we passed it. It wouldn't have made a big deal in the game, but it would have been more enjoyable, since everybody would have handled the leadership token, at least once.
 
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Czech Mate
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hyped78 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I'd change the subject to say Broken? (6 players) [ANSWERED - RULES ERROR]


Just changed it, thanks!



OK. but I gotta ask, did playing with the corrected rule fix your issue? I ask because we played 5 or 6 games last night (first time(s) for our group) and the spies always won. Base game, no expansions or plots or anything. We came to the conclusion that the spies always win and the game is too difficult (broken??) for the resistance to ever win (unless the spies make a few serious blunders!).

Does this mean we simply are not playing well enough to win as the resistance in a 6 player game?

I really want to like/love this game!

thanks,
michael.
 
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mbrna wrote:
hyped78 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I'd change the subject to say Broken? (6 players) [ANSWERED - RULES ERROR]


Just changed it, thanks!



OK. but I gotta ask, did playing with the corrected rule fix your issue? I ask because we played 5 or 6 games last night (first time(s) for our group) and the spies always won. Base game, no expansions or plots or anything. We came to the conclusion that the spies always win and the game is too difficult (broken??) for the resistance to ever win (unless the spies make a few serious blunders!).

Does this mean we simply are not playing well enough to win as the resistance in a 6 player game?

I really want to like/love this game!

thanks,
michael.
There's quite a few threads about this in the strategy forum.

For example:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/10338524#10338524
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1138300/game-solved
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1072362/tips-winning-resist...

Basically, it's balanced, but new players are particularly susceptible to playing in a way that benefits spies. Vote down more often, and pay attention when people vote up from off-mission.
 
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Martin Hall
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I play 6p less often.

It is harder for the spies because (like 5 p) it requires a spy to fail twice.
It is also harder because this number has the highest proportion of rebels, so best chance that random picks will give clean teams.

It is easier for the spies because there are two 4p missions, which will each fail with a single spy, so the rebels need to get these perfect to pass.
Playing without extra information (plot cards/ Merlin / etc), it is extremely difficult to get the rebel team right by mission 3. Of course, if you do, then you win.

Overall I think it is slightly easier for the rebels.

Personally I think 7 player is the most interesting. The higher numbers (especially 10p) are almost ridiculously easy for spies unless you add plot cards or similar.
 
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Tyler B
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mbrna wrote:
hyped78 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
I'd change the subject to say Broken? (6 players) [ANSWERED - RULES ERROR]


Just changed it, thanks!



OK. but I gotta ask, did playing with the corrected rule fix your issue? I ask because we played 5 or 6 games last night (first time(s) for our group) and the spies always won. Base game, no expansions or plots or anything. We came to the conclusion that the spies always win and the game is too difficult (broken??) for the resistance to ever win (unless the spies make a few serious blunders!).

Does this mean we simply are not playing well enough to win as the resistance in a 6 player game?

I really want to like/love this game!

thanks,
michael.


In my limited experience with the game (<10 plays), if the Spies win every time, then you aren't rejecting enough mission proposals early in the game. It seems to me that, early in the game, you gain more information in the proposals and voting for them than you actually do in the success/fail mission votes.
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Apologies for resurrecting an older thread but this came up as a Google search and to me, the title reads as if there is an error IN the rules, rather than a player misinterpreting them. Maybe correct it to avoid confusion.
 
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