Michael J
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1) Situation:

- Turn 7.

- US infantry unit hit, loses a step, and suffers disruption.

- Later in the Fire Phase resolution, a nearby Japanese unit is triggered by an (A)assault action, which should cause it to move to the nearest US Unit, and Close Combat it.

However, since the US unit already suffered a step-loss during the turn, can it lose another from the (A)ssault action? I ruled NO, and decided the Japanese unit takes NO ACTION (there were no other viable targets to assault). Is this a reasonable ruling?

2) And in situations where you must attempt to hit the most units possible, how do you reconcile that with close combats since you can't know before allocating hits what the results of the close combat will be? In other words, if position A can hit units 1 or 2 equally, and position B can CC unit 2, am I allowed to let position A hit unit 2 in order to prevent position B from CC'ing it due to step loss limitations?
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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mjacobsca wrote:
1) Situation:

- Turn 7.

- US infantry unit hit, loses a step, and suffers disruption.

- Later in the Fire Phase resolution, a nearby Japanese unit is triggered by an (A)assault action, which should cause it to move to the nearest US Unit, and Close Combat it.

However, since the US unit already suffered a step-loss during the turn, can it lose another from the (A)ssault action? I ruled NO, and decided the Japanese unit takes NO ACTION (there were no other viable targets to assault). Is this a reasonable ruling?

2) And in situations where you must attempt to hit the most units possible, how do you reconcile that with close combats since you can't know before allocating hits what the results of the close combat will be? In other words, if position A can hit units 1 or 2 equally, and position B can CC unit 2, am I allowed to let position A hit unit 2 in order to prevent position B from CC'ing it due to step loss limitations?


The rule for step loss limitations states:

"A given US unit may not lose more than one step in a single Japanese Fire Phase, even if hit by fire from multiple Japanese positions."

I do not believe CC counts as this is a different action than fire, it also creates unresolvable complications as indicated in your second question.
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Paul Dodds
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I've always played it the same way was Rev, so treated CC as separate from fire and therefore free from any step loss limitations.

In the case of your example, I would have activated the Japanese unit for the Assault. Makes perfect tactical sense: soften up the target with ranged fire before charging in for the kill!
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Ciccio Punksticcio
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Kyuss wrote:
Makes perfect tactical sense: soften up the target with ranged fire before charging in for the kill!

Wish we could do the same with our US troops but for us is forbidden to attack and CC the same hex in the same turn. Unfair game! angry

Ciap
 
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Michael J
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Kyuss wrote:
I've always played it the same way was Rev, so treated CC as separate from fire and therefore free from any step loss limitations.


US units have a separate Close Combat step in their attack phase. Japanese units don't. If you look at 8.6 of the rules, it states that CC happens when a unit lands in an enemy occupied hex with an LVT, in the Japanese Action phase, or in the Close Combat step of the US Action Phase. Even the summary card has a separate CC step for the US Action Phase.

I've been playing that CC's during landing and CC's during the Japanese fire phase happen IMMEDIATELY.
 
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mjacobsca wrote:
Kyuss wrote:
I've always played it the same way was Rev, so treated CC as separate from fire and therefore free from any step loss limitations.


US units have a separate Close Combat step in their attack phase. Japanese units don't. If you look at 8.6 of the rules, it states that CC happens when a unit lands in an enemy occupied hex with an LVT, in the Japanese Action phase, or in the Close Combat step of the US Action Phase. Even the summary card has a separate CC step for the US Action Phase.

I've been playing that CC's during landing and CC's during the Japanese fire phase happen IMMEDIATELY.


That timing is correct, but they don't count as a "fire" action so the one-step limit doesn't apply.
 
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Michael J
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
mjacobsca wrote:
Kyuss wrote:
I've always played it the same way was Rev, so treated CC as separate from fire and therefore free from any step loss limitations.


US units have a separate Close Combat step in their attack phase. Japanese units don't. If you look at 8.6 of the rules, it states that CC happens when a unit lands in an enemy occupied hex with an LVT, in the Japanese Action phase, or in the Close Combat step of the US Action Phase. Even the summary card has a separate CC step for the US Action Phase.

I've been playing that CC's during landing and CC's during the Japanese fire phase happen IMMEDIATELY.


That timing is correct, but they don't count as a "fire" action so the one-step limit doesn't apply.


But the step-loss limitation says "one step per Japanese Fire Phase". Doesn't the Assault happen IN the Fire Phase? Or are you saying, we are in the Fire Phase, take a break, start and complete the Assault Action outside of the Fire Phase, then go back to the Fire Phase after? I'm still trying to make sense of your logic.
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Ciccio Punksticcio
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mjacobsca wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
mjacobsca wrote:
Kyuss wrote:
I've always played it the same way was Rev, so treated CC as separate from fire and therefore free from any step loss limitations.


US units have a separate Close Combat step in their attack phase. Japanese units don't. If you look at 8.6 of the rules, it states that CC happens when a unit lands in an enemy occupied hex with an LVT, in the Japanese Action phase, or in the Close Combat step of the US Action Phase. Even the summary card has a separate CC step for the US Action Phase.

I've been playing that CC's during landing and CC's during the Japanese fire phase happen IMMEDIATELY.


That timing is correct, but they don't count as a "fire" action so the one-step limit doesn't apply.


But the step-loss limitation says "one step per Japanese Fire Phase". Doesn't the Assault happen IN the Fire Phase? Or are you saying, we are in the Fire Phase, take a break, start and complete the Assault Action outside of the Fire Phase, then go back to the Fire Phase after? I'm still trying to make sense of your logic.

But during a Japanese CC a US unit can lose more than 1 step so I think CC is different from normal fire.

Ciap
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mjacobsca wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
mjacobsca wrote:
Kyuss wrote:
I've always played it the same way was Rev, so treated CC as separate from fire and therefore free from any step loss limitations.


US units have a separate Close Combat step in their attack phase. Japanese units don't. If you look at 8.6 of the rules, it states that CC happens when a unit lands in an enemy occupied hex with an LVT, in the Japanese Action phase, or in the Close Combat step of the US Action Phase. Even the summary card has a separate CC step for the US Action Phase.

I've been playing that CC's during landing and CC's during the Japanese fire phase happen IMMEDIATELY.


That timing is correct, but they don't count as a "fire" action so the one-step limit doesn't apply.


But the step-loss limitation says "one step per Japanese Fire Phase". Doesn't the Assault happen IN the Fire Phase? Or are you saying, we are in the Fire Phase, take a break, start and complete the Assault Action outside of the Fire Phase, then go back to the Fire Phase after? I'm still trying to make sense of your logic.


Clarification number one - there is no "Japanese Action Phase", all Japanese actions happen during the fire phase.

The rules are a little unclear, but what it says is:

"A given US unit may not lose more than one step in a single Japanese Fire Phase, even if hit by fire from multiple Japanese positions."

The rules also state:

"Once lettered actions come into effect, the sequence in which you check Japanese positions for fire and actions may have an impact on play. Therefore, check all positions matching the first (leftmost) position color on the card first, then all positions matching the second color, then the third. Within a position color, check all positions hexes in order from west to east
"

While the step loss rule is not that clearly worded, to me the intent is clear. During the Japanese Fire Phase, all Japanese positions activate in colour order on the card, and within those colours in order from west to east, whether firing or taking an action. A U.S. unit may only take one step loss from Japanese fire during this phase, but CC can clearly cause multiple step losses during the Japanese Fire Phase in violation of your interpretation of the step loss limitation rule. Therefore the CC is not limited by previous fire damage, CC itself can clearly cause more than one step loss even though it happens during the Japanese Fire Phase, and damage from Japanese CC alone does not prevent damage from Japanese fire that happens later in the same Japanese Fire Phase.

It would have been clearer if the step loss rule were worded as:

"A given US unit may not lose more than one step from Japanese fire in a single Japanese Fire Phase, even if hit by fire from multiple positions."

It isn't worded that way, but I believe that is the intent. Otherwise all kinds of difficult to resolve issues, like yours, arise. If that weren't the intent, the clearly stated rules for CC, which indicate that multiple step losses can occur in one CC even though it happens during the Japanese Fire Phase would be in violation of the step loss rule.
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Michael J
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Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for going over your reasoning in more detail. For now on, I'll treat CC as a separate entity as far as step loss limitations go.
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mjacobsca wrote:
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for going over your reasoning in more detail. For now on, I'll treat CC as a separate entity as far as step loss limitations go.


No problem at all Michael!

There is a lot going on in this game and it can be a challenge to wrap your head around it all. Plus it is super tough to achieve victory, which is something I really appreciate in a solo game.
 
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Michael J
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LOL I think I'm 0/6 at this point. I've made it to Turn 15 once with a score of... 0 points, Turn 14 once before catastrophic loss, and the rest Turns 7-11 before bitter defeat.

And in my last game, I thought I was doing OK UNTIL I realized on Turn 8 that I had forgotten to land my soldiers on Turn 6! Doh! I was thinking how fast the turns were going, how efficient I was getting, and how thin my forces were, before it dawned on me that I messed up. Man, I think it was my best game, too. Those extra troops would have solidified it. Instead, I just shook my head shame, packed it up, and put it away.
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Jacob Wootsick
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I have a follow-up to the OP question and would like the correct ruling before I continue on (I hate investing so much time into a game to later find out I played it wrong);

I'm in the process of 'Japanese Counterattack' and you guys have answered my 1st question (2 different Japanese units performing CC on the same US unit - resulting in multiple step losses = allowed).

In the same process I've been hit by artillery fire (via 'A' action) and all of my units with same symbol have been hit one step. The Japanese Fire Card also has the artillery fire on it (aside from the letter A action).

Can a US unit get hit again or no? - I think not?

P.S. I got rocked this turn!
 
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John Butterfield
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All artillery fire occurs during the Japanese Fire Phase. A US unit may not lose more than one step in a single Japanese Fire Phase, per 6.34
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