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Dungeon Dice» Forums » Rules

Subject: Guilds Class Question rss

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Wendy B
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Hello All!

I have just been brave enough to add my Guilds dice to my set. After playing with it the first time, we came across a difference of opinion, and so I am coming to all of you for clarification.

When equipping the Class Dice is the passive ability immediate? Or does that side have to be rolled for it to be used? Example. I have the Rogue. The passive ability lets me pick the lock of a locked chest without benefit of a key. Is this something I can use no matter what? Or would I have to roll that side of the die prior to (or in some classes during) combat for it to take effect?

I hope that question wasn't too confusing! Thanks for your help!!

 
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Scott Cantor
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I know for certain that passives are always active if the class is in effect, but I don't know timing-wise at what instant the class would become active.

I would presume that upon drawing it, you could activate a class die by equipping appropriately on that turn (knowing you won't be fighting), but did you got a die in trade on someone else's turn, that would be more open to interpretation, maybe based on what you had equipped on your last turn?
 
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Josh L
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You don't need to roll or have rolled a class die to gain it's passive benefits. You do have to have the correct equipment equipped though. Also, the book doesn't specify that you equip class die, but it does say that you can only benefit from one die per player turn. Once you've gained a benefit from a class die, you can't use a different one until your next turn.

This is important because it means that, when you have multiple class die requirements satisfied by your equipped items, you can choose at any time which class die to use. This is different from equipment which can only be changed outside of combat.

So if you get a new class die during combat, you can benefit from it's passive immediately as long as your current equipment satisfies the new class's requirement and you haven't benefited from a class die since before your last turn.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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I'm a little fuzzy on the Class dice too...and the coordination with equipped dice.

I have the correct weapon to active a Class ability. If I use the passive ability in between turns, is the weapon then deemed to be equipped? And have I "used" the ability of that weapon once per turn so that I could not use another weapon in that hand?

On a side related note is the Class die rolled with the Combat dice and if so, is it re-rolled when Gust is played?



 
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Wendy B
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Chuck brings up another question for me. The Class die do not take up a hand unless specified by the die, correct? For example, the Monk requires both hands be free. But the Rogue does not say that, so is not considered a hand?
 
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Donn Hardy
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Class dice don't take up hands.

Class dice can't be rerolled.
 
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Wendy B
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Ok Donn, so then it is a choice, utilize the passive ability, or roll it to see if you can activate another ability, correct?
 
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Josh L
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Nope. You can get both. The passive is always available. Then, when you choose to roll a class die, you can use the ability shown on the face of the die.
 
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Todd Pytel
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As noted, passive abilities are simply "always on" provided that class is equipped at the time. The icon is only there on the die face as a reminder. Similarly, the requirements are printed on one face of the class die as a reminder, but that side does absolutely nothing in combat.

Carcking wrote:
I'm a little fuzzy on the Class dice too...and the coordination with equipped dice.

This part is not treated as explicitly in the rules as I'd like either. I think the design is little messy here and leads to weird corner cases that are hard to resolve. Here's my understanding - Donn's more up to date and will correct me if I'm wrong...

Quote:
I have the correct weapon to active a Class ability. If I use the passive ability in between turns, is the weapon then deemed to be equipped?

You can't equip the Class die without the requirements also being equipped, so yes. Note that in the case of the dagger, it must actually be equipped in a hand and not just thrown as an extra die. So a Knight could use a sword and shield and throw a dagger, but a Wizard could not.

Quote:
And have I "used" the ability of that weapon once per turn so that I could not use another weapon in that hand?

The underlined phrase doesn't match up with DD's language. What I think you're getting at is that you're limited to equipping one combination of armor plus two hands each turn, which is correct. So if you equip a sword and shield to fight as the Knight against a monster guarding an artifact, you can't turn around and equip a whip to use the Rogue's lock-picking ability on that chest. However, there's nothing preventing you from switching equipment and classes as turns progress around the table. So you can fight on your turn as the Rogue, and then pick up your sword on someone else's turn to Rescue them as the Knight.

donnbobhardy wrote:
Class dice can't be rerolled.

Even in the case of a Gust? Are you sure? The Guilds rules state they can't be rerolled, but I read that as referring to Slash and Armor. The Gust rules explicitly state to remove One-Use and Spell dice, then reroll "all remaining dice". Gust is supposed to reset combat, so I would rule that any Class dice thrown in combat are rerolled as well.

 
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Chuck Hurd
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tppytel wrote:
Quote:
And have I "used" the ability of that weapon once per turn so that I could not use another weapon in that hand?

The underlined phrase doesn't match up with DD's language. What I think you're getting at is that you're limited to equipping one combination of armor plus two hands each turn, which is correct. So if you equip a sword and shield to fight as the Knight against a monster guarding an artifact, you can't turn around and equip a whip to use the Rogue's lock-picking ability on that chest. However, there's nothing preventing you from switching equipment and classes as turns progress around the table. So you can fight on your turn as the Rogue, and then pick up your sword on someone else's turn to Rescue them as the Knight.

Is this scenario legal? And if not, why?

It's a 5 player game:
I have in my possession a Dagger, Armor, Harp and an Artifact Sword. Also, I own the Monk, Wizard, Bard, Artificer, Knight and Assassin Class dice. (I know, what lucky draws

On my turn I have nothing equipped except Armor and as the Monk I am able to defeat the monster with one-use dice and familiars. I rolled Fleet during the fight and take an additional turn. I then equip Armor and Dagger as a Wizard and rest. This allows me to draw a Scroll.

During the other players' turns or in between turns I do all of the following:
1. I equip Harp and force my way into a fight as the Bard with Perform.
2. At some point during the round I am able to trade for a Purple euipment so I equip my Artifact Sword and as the Artificer I now trade in the Purple and three other equipment for another Artifact.
3. Another player is losing a fight so as the Knight with my Artifact Sword still equipped I am able to jump in and Rescue.
4. Then the player in the lead is about to win, so as the Assassin with my Artifact Sword still equipped I force him to be -1 Combat and I roll Assassinate on the die which allows me to roll my Sword and add it to the monster.

Is this all legal? And if not, why? What is it about the rules for Guilds and/or Base game that I am missing?


 
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Todd Pytel
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Carcking wrote:
Is this scenario legal? And if not, why?...

During the other players' turns or in between turns I do all of the following...

There's no concept of "in between turns" in DD. Everything happens during player turns. But given that, and provided you do everything on different player turns, I think that's all legal. I'll note that I only play with a subset of Guilds and haven't used the Harp, Assassin, or Artificer dice. So I may be missing some exception there. But the basic idea is that you get one set of equipment (and thus one Class) per player turn, not per round.

In practice, it's fairly rare (maybe 1 in 4 games) to have the opportunity to equip more than one Class. I don't believe I've ever had the required equipment and class dice to have a choice of 3 or more classes.
 
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Donn Hardy
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The only part I would probably object to is the Artificer part. I don't think you can trade your equipment in on someone else's turn.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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donnbobhardy wrote:
The only part I would probably object to is the Artificer part. I don't think you can trade your equipment in on someone else's turn.

This is what I was going on in the Base game rulebook page 2:
"Five EQUIPMENT dice may be traded at any time for one
ARTIFACT die; the EQUIPMENT dice are returned to the blue bag, and an ARTIFACT is drawn
randomly."
The italics are my emphasis. I took it literally not finding anything else that restricted it.


So the above scenario and answers cleared A LOT of stuff up for me. It was not clicking for me that "once per turn" meant once per any player's turn. So the line on page 2 of Guilds: "A hero may only benefit from one Class per turn." is meant to say "per any player's turn." This is so much clearer now.

Other questions may arise now though. For example the Druid's passive ability: "Train Familiar (passive ability) - Once per turn, you may reroll one familiar..."
Is that intended to allow the reroll of a familiar on another player's turn? So in the above scenario after my turn I could have allowed a familiar to be rerolled on another player's turn while I had Harp equipped, assuming I did not exceed the one Class benefit limit per player turn?
Or I could have used this ability on every player's turn assuming I honored the one Class benefit limit per player turn?

The Throw ability from Guilds page 8 makes more sense now.


 
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Todd Pytel
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donnbobhardy wrote:
I don't think you can trade your equipment in on someone else's turn.

Per Chuck's quote, I think you can.

CarcKing wrote:
Other questions may arise now though. For example the Druid's passive ability: "Train Familiar (passive ability) - Once per turn, you may reroll one familiar..." Is that intended to allow the reroll of a familiar on another player's turn?

Sure, why not? You can use the ability every player turn. Turn = Player Turn. But except for the Bear, you can only roll your familiars either in combat or on your own turn. But if you were (always as the Druid) to cooperate in several fights on several consecutive turns? Sure, you could reroll your familiar on each of those turns.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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tppytel wrote:
[q="donnbobhardy"]...But except for the Bear, you can only roll your familiars either in combat or on your own turn...

My question regarding the Druid's passive ability was specifically regarding other players' familiars. Can the Druid reroll another player's familiar once per turn?

 
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Todd Pytel
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Carcking wrote:
My question regarding the Druid's passive ability was specifically regarding other players' familiars. Can the Druid reroll another player's familiar once per turn?

Ah... the rules do only say "reroll one familiar" and not "reroll your familiar". Still, I doubt the intention was to allow you to reroll other players' familiars. Donn, has this ever been addressed anywhere?
 
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Chuck Hurd
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tppytel wrote:
Carcking wrote:
My question regarding the Druid's passive ability was specifically regarding other players' familiars. Can the Druid reroll another player's familiar once per turn?

Ah... the rules do only say "reroll one familiar" and not "reroll your familiar". Still, I doubt the intention was to allow you to reroll other players' familiars. Donn, has this ever been addressed anywhere?

Any takers on this one?

 
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Donn Hardy
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I passed this one on to Potluck. I've never seen it asked before.
 
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Donn Hardy
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The official answer from Potluck is that the intended rule is to only reroll your own familiars.
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Chuck Hurd
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donnbobhardy wrote:
The official answer from Potluck is that the intended rule is to only reroll your own familiars.

Perfect, thanks! Will you put it in the FAQ?
 
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Donn Hardy
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Carcking wrote:
donnbobhardy wrote:
The official answer from Potluck is that the intended rule is to only reroll your own familiars.

Perfect, thanks! Will you put it in the FAQ?


Added.
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Greg Hardy
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Quote:
I have the correct weapon to active a Class ability. If I use the passive ability in between turns, is the weapon then deemed to be equipped?

Answer:
You can't equip the Class die without the requirements also being equipped, so yes. Note that in the case of the dagger, it must actually be equipped in a hand and not just thrown as an extra die. So a Knight could use a sword and shield and throw a dagger, but a Wizard could not.

My confusion is:
My understanding of Throw means that the Dagger does not need to be Equipped to be used. Further, the Throw ability may technically be used Twice per round: Once during the players turn and active combat, and then again during another player’s turn/combat – at which point the player Must wait till the End of their next turn to use the ability again – making it an ability that could only be used Once that following turn – or if the player chose to not use the ability the following round, then Twice again on the round proceeding that (3rd round from the start of this example, essentially) and so on.

If I have read all of this correctly, And a dagger is essentially like having an extra fight die (w/restrictions) for players who choose to not equip it, And use it during their combats, Then, you are not sacrificing your Dagger (ie: un-equipping it) to use its Throw ability. So, it should have no bearing on whether or not the Wizard, or any other class could use it.

Am I misunderstanding something?
 
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Todd Pytel
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Abaculo wrote:
So, it should have no bearing on whether or not the Wizard, or any other class could use it.

Am I misunderstanding something?

Yes, you're overlooking the fact that the Dagger is a requirement for the Wizard. To use the Wizard class die, you must equip the Dagger (or the Staff), just using it via Throw is not enough. Hence, a Knight may use Sword and Shield plus Throw the Dagger, but a Wizard may not use Sword and Shield plus Throw the Dagger.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Abaculo wrote:
Quote:If I have read all of this correctly, And a dagger is essentially like having an extra fight die (w/restrictions) for players who choose to not equip it, And use it during their combats, Then, you are not sacrificing your Dagger (ie: un-equipping it) to use its Throw ability. So, it should have no bearing on whether or not the Wizard, or any other class could use it.

By definition, the Throw ability means you are throwing (rolling) it while it is not equipped. The benefit is that you can equip two hands worth of weapons during combat, and then also throw the unequipped dagger.

Some of the confusion might lie here though: The Wizard equipment requirement can be met with either a dagger or a staff, so the answer quoted above indicating a Wizard could not throw a dagger is not entirely correct. If he should have a staff equipped he would be able to throw a dagger.

If however the Wizard is relying on the dagger being equipped in order to be a Wizard then he cannot also throw it because he is using it in combat as a one handed weapon(although he may still be able to throw some other dagger if he possesses one).


 
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